Tunisia 37 tourists murdered on beach near marina

[MarkJ]

I have been warning against Tunisia as a winter location or a place to escape Schengan visa time. Today 37 tourists on a beach near one of these marinas have been murdered by islamic terrorists.

The news is just breaking...

Tunisia attack on Sousse beach 'kills 37' - BBC News

The 37 killed include 5 British.

[Seaworthy Lass]

36 are apparently wounded as well, some critically.

This follows hot on the heels of 21 killed in the museum earlier this year .

[skipmac]

Just watching this on BBC America. Seems like all of North Africa has become a no go zone.

EU needs to fix the Schengen restrictions or it will make legal cruising for foreigners almost impossible.

[svmariane]

Horrific. Terrorism in the classic sense. It's impossible for most people to fathom that feeling of terror experienced by those unarmed holiday makers and civilian employees at the resort during those minutes of chaos. Terror hence terrorism.

But something leapt out to me from the article and thought I'd comment on that. "... At least 37 people... have been killed... and 36 injured... according to the health ministry." Plus: One "suspect" killed by police, one "suspect" apprehended. Apparently, police responded within minutes.

Here's the point: That's virtually a 50% kill ration for both of the sides bearing arms. And that's actually a plus point, if you'll bear with me and a possible Ivory Tower viewpoint.

We were in Egypt when terrorists/extremists attacked Luxor Temple in 1997. {Our tour group visited Luxor two days earlier, then our cruise ship headed towards Aswan.}

Killed: 62 people, of which 58 were tourists.
Wounded: 25 people, 16 of them tourists.
Terrorist kill ratio: approx 66%
Police kill ratio: 100% {6 terrorists attacked - all six died}
Massive public criticism/outcry concerning delayed police response.

So my take-aways are this:

1) Police/soldier response time is drastically reduced from what it used to be, resulting in worse kill ratios for the extremists.

2) Capture rate of (some) extremists is better, resulting in better access for intelligence agencies to backtrack/identify associates/planners.

3) It actually IS a war that's going on. Hide head in sand at own risk.

4) Civilians bear the brunt in times of asymmetric warfare.


None of that brings comfort to the inured or dead, nor to their families. I know. Okay? I know. But still and all, while bullet wounds are painful (with sometimes life-changing crippling results) being wounded is so very much better than being dead.

Be careful out there - choose your ports o'call wisely.

James
USMC 1970-78

[Cheechako]

Africa is a nightmare right now... even for Africans. A lot of kidnapping and torturing going on against people trying to head out of their state for a better life. They kidnap and torture daily waiting for money from relatives.... even poor Africans! They REALLY think of a foreigner as a Goldmine I imagine.
Alot of this doesn't hit the news cycle... unless you look hard for it.

[chuckr]

We spent the last two winters in Tunisia. We love the country and the people. The food is great, the marina is first class, medical services are very good and very inexpensive. It is a beautiful and very historical.


But after Bardo and the people who were responsible we began to feel uncomfortable. We are always aware of our surroundings and who is near ect ect. But we became more vigilant after Bardo and glad we left, even before this last incident. By the way we had initially planned a 5 day camel ride across the desert but when the time came close it was suggested that we forgo those plans as anywhere in south Tunisia may not be safe. We had gone there last year and security was great but things must have gotten worse this year.
As for wintering over we are in Albania right now headed to Greece, and that will be interesting in the next few weeks, and on to Turkey for the winter.


We wish well for the people in Tunisia as we have many friends there and hope the best for them.

[yardie]

We just arrived less than 24 hours before the attack to have our bimini replaced. Some of the other cruisers are like me where we have work being done that is going to take some time.

[CC45]

Originally Posted by svmariane

Horrific. Terrorism in the classic sense. It's impossible for most people to fathom that feeling of terror experienced by those unarmed holiday makers and civilian employees at the resort during those minutes of chaos. Terror hence terrorism.

But something leapt out to me from the article and thought I'd comment on that. "... At least 37 people... have been killed... and 36 injured... according to the health ministry." Plus: One "suspect" killed by police, one "suspect" apprehended. Apparently, police responded within minutes.

Here's the point: That's virtually a 50% kill ration for both of the sides bearing arms. And that's actually a plus point, if you'll bear with me and a possible Ivory Tower viewpoint.

We were in Egypt when terrorists/extremists attacked Luxor Temple in 1997. {Our tour group visited Luxor two days earlier, then our cruise ship headed towards Aswan.}

Killed: 62 people, of which 58 were tourists.
Wounded: 25 people, 16 of them tourists.
Terrorist kill ratio: approx 66%
Police kill ratio: 100% {6 terrorists attacked - all six died}
Massive public criticism/outcry concerning delayed police response.

So my take-aways are this:

1) Police/soldier response time is drastically reduced from what it used to be, resulting in worse kill ratios for the extremists.

2) Capture rate of (some) extremists is better, resulting in better access for intelligence agencies to backtrack/identify associates/planners.

3) It actually IS a war that's going on. Hide head in sand at own risk.

4) Civilians bear the brunt in times of asymmetric warfare.


None of that brings comfort to the inured or dead, nor to their families. I know. Okay? I know. But still and all, while bullet wounds are painful (with sometimes life-changing crippling results) being wounded is so very much better than being dead.

Be careful out there - choose your ports o'call wisely.

James
USMC 1970-78

Hello,
I am really glad that the governments can do this, but at what and who's expense. I am an ex Navy and NG member for over 13 yrs and trained for fighting terrorists but now its a hole new ball game. Any one who visits those ports overseas will put your hands in those person's. The way i see it, There are no ports that good enough to visit that would put me in harms way. If any one still plans on going there, let me know, give me enough personal information so i can purchase a life policy on you, Hell, i need the $$. What is wrong with heading to Hawaii, then down to Austrailia. Or head out towards Guam and all the islands in the S. Pacific. At least i know there safe..

[alansmith]

Ruthless devils. You can never predict where or when...i.e. =911. These men and women know that their chances of survival are almost zero when they plan these attacks. Most North African security sources have done the best they can with what they have. One article I read stated that tourism in Tunisia accounts for almost 20 percent of their GNP. Can you imagine the financial carnage that will follow now that two big time massacres have happened in this past year?

I just am acutely aware of the mind set against western people. They do not want us on their lands period. This warfare is going to get a lot worse before it peaks. Saudi imperial forces have their hands full and are getting much more aggressive against anti-regime...Saudi planes bombing Yemen!

My logical mind says that jihadists would never attack a marina because they can not inflict much damage. Can they kidnap someone? But they can not go in with bomb belts and bullets flying. But they can blow up market places, hotels, night clubs, and the like where foreigners like to hang out.

Another article on 60 minutes was based on interviews with top level ministers and security forces about the Charlie Hebdo incidents in Paris. They have found out that these two men were known street criminals with police records and surveillance due to travel by one of them to Yemen. Somehow they slipped through the cracks of state security because they were concentrating on bigger fish. Their thoughts were this....many disadvantaged youth turn to crime and then are switched to jihadists by clever handlers who prey on these loose cannons. The top level security man (equivalent to CIA director) stated they are hybrids. They are not people raised as Muslim. But they have strong criminal backgrounds and are going nowhere and have no education or direction. They see the jihadist mantra as exciting and gives them direction and purpose. Scary.

It is a shame, isn't it? Take the skin off and we pretty much all look alike.
I want to go see the pyramids, Palmyra, the Blue Mosque, and ride camels along the old silk roads. But I am sure it is not worth the risk of getting kidnapped or skewered because of my white skin. I know many are still going to these places. But I saw the warning and felt the chilly deadly eyes upon me when I was in Urumqi, China by young Muslim men. It was clearly a message of "I want to kill you!"

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by CC45

Hello,
I am really glad that the governments can do this, but at what and who's expense. I am an ex Navy and NG member for over 13 yrs and trained for fighting terrorists but now its a hole new ball game. Any one who visits those ports overseas will put your hands in those person's. The way i see it, There are no ports that good enough to visit that would put me in harms way. If any one still plans on going there, let me know, give me enough personal information so i can purchase a life policy on you, Hell, i need the $$. What is wrong with heading to Hawaii, then down to Austrailia. Or head out towards Guam and all the islands in the S. Pacific. At least i know there safe..

I agree that there is less crime in the Micronesian,Gilbert, etc. islands but the typhoons are brutal..The women will take good care of you thou if you happen to get hit in the head with a wind blown coconut (or not)!! No I wouldnt go that direction either, best just to stay home they dont like haolies in Guam or Hawaii ,much safer at home in places like Charleston SC !! Whats a sailor to do..?

[Bill Seal]

Google "Denmark and Islam" and draw your own conclusions.

[The Miss]

So sad to read this latest news from Tunisia. Due to the Schengen rules we were lucky enough to spend 3 months in Tunisia last year. The people were welcoming and warm, the food sensational and the history and society worthy to visit.
Would I repeat a visit less than one year on? Doubtful as safety is the highest priority. Instead this year we have travelled to Albania and are about to head into Turkey for another 90 day step out of the EU. It feels like our options are lessening each year...

Tonight our thoughts go out to Tunisia and her people.
I Just Don’t Get It | Miss Catana

[tropicalescape]

Modern day crusades: only this time it(west) will continue the push until there is no more "easting" to be done!! Historic times we are living in, imagine the adventures out there to be had if one has the inclination for such things!!I am sure it will get even more bizarre, more fantastic and incredible..The show has only just begun and we all have a front row seat to history being made..These are frightning and fantastic days and I only hope and pray that our side wins...we are on the same side..? Arent we?

[1paulg]

Hope I am wrong but I think there is a chance we will start to see boat hijackings in the lower Med off the African coast ie Tunisia and Libya - there is already people trafficking going on at an increasing rate - going out the Gibraltar straits I would be keeping north in the lead up ..could turn into another Somalia

[svmariane]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

SNIP: "...best just to stay home they don't like haolies in Guam or Hawaii, much safer at home in places like Charleston SC !! Whats a sailor to do..?

Here's an oft repeated quote, attributed (mostly) to Mark Twain:

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."

Sure, pick your ports o'call with care -
but home-harbour isn't the only safe harbour.

Sure, rig your boat so thieves can't just amble down the companionway -
but YOU are not the criminal sentenced to live behind bars.

Sure, terrorists/extremists will hit places where tourists congregate -
but there are virtually uncountable harbors & anchorages 'round the world where you'll anchor alone or at best have a dozen other boats for companions. Maybe you'll get lucky & share anchorage near MarkJ (but mind you, not TOO close ).

What I'm saying is that of course we need to be careful, take precautions...

But 'tis better to die while living life to its fullest than cower in fear in some supposedly "safe" location. YMMV

James