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Old 02-11-2010, 07:51   #16
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Have I understood correctly that you want to ship the boat to Croatia for a three week holiday? Surely just chartering for that period would do fine! It has to be cheaper and way way easier,e ven if you don't have all the home comforts of your own boat! And economies are dire across the EU so you should get a good deal.

If you do want to sail there, don't be frightened of Albania - more and more cruisers are going there and facilities aren't great but it's safe enough. See this thread on the British ybw forums for more information. We've not been there but know people who have with no difficulties.

If you land your boat in an EU country you will get open to enquiry as to VAT - as said above, people need money right now and if you can be seen to be importing it, Customs will be interested. However, there is normally (for cruising boats arriving on their own keels at any rate) a six month window which you could presumably use to get the boat out of the EU again.

But really, really, why bother?
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Old 02-11-2010, 08:06   #17
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If you land your boat in an EU country you will get open to enquiry as to VAT - as said above, people need money right now and if you can be seen to be importing it, Customs will be interested. However, there is normally (for cruising boats arriving on their own keels at any rate) a six month window which you could presumably use to get the boat out of the EU again.
Firstly , if you are merely transhipping the product through the EU, theres no VAT issue, but this has to be setup using a shipping agent.

Secondly the EU gives you 18 months extended to 24 months for temporay import as long as you the beneficial owner are not a EU tax resident.( The 6 month limit went some years ago)

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Old 02-11-2010, 08:30   #18
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You are quite right and thanks for the correction. The shortened but official version can be found here to start any checking of further details. Of course the VAT rate varies between countries.
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Old 02-11-2010, 09:31   #19
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You've stated that its on a trailer.... correct?
Then why not ship it as far as Venice... tie it in with a holiday and rent a large 4wheel drive and tow it through Slovenia to Croatia...
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Old 07-11-2010, 05:41   #20
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You've stated that its on a trailer.... correct?
Then why not ship it as far as Venice... tie it in with a holiday and rent a large 4wheel drive and tow it through Slovenia to Croatia...
I can ship it even closer - Koper, Slovenia (directly from NY). That's why I was inquring on the original question about 40FL shipping.

I am not sure of availability of vehicles in Croatia/Slovenia for towing 10,000lbs boat (with trailer, accessories, etc). But if Koper is on the Adriatic I am considering just driving it down to Korcula island.
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Old 07-11-2010, 05:55   #21
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boat transport:

The methods described to you are as safe as can possibly be applied.
All boat transport via cargo has its risks but great care is applied, highly trained dockside personnel mathematically calculate weight and balance during transit and the boat is protected as much as possible from the elements. The Captain also is chosen for his expertise in the passage to re route where necessary for avoidance of weather inflicted stress and motion on the transporting vessel as these sail the Atlantic all year round - including hurricane season.
Costs can be high which the boat owner must evaluate against wear and tear, crew salaries and expenses for a crewed delivery.
But why are you transporting this way?
I am a well qualified ocean delivery skipper operating the Atlantic since 2004. I never use amateur crew and to move your size of yacht would only need 2 professional crew ( myself and partner)
Our rates would be far lower and can customise for ocean passage making safely and economically.
I personally have relocated vessels in March period from the Carribean to Croatia for summer charter.
I look forward to your comments on your choice of transportation.
With kind regards
Karen Wyatt
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Hi,

We are trying to get a 28ft cruiser from the US to Croatia in Europe. The cruiser is too big to fit into a container, and there is no direct RoRo service between the US and the Adriatic sea. One option was to ship to an RoRo port in Europe (i.e. Germany, Italy, or Greece) and then use overland transport, however this option is very expensive.

One company offered us the option of shipping on a 40 foot open flat rack. Hence, as I understand the boat would travel on an open hull of a container boat. He said the boat would have to be lashed per IMO standards and the boat would have to be protected with a liner from the sea water, rain, i.e. all the conditions that it may encounter crossing the Ocean.

Does this seem like a safe way to transport the boat?

Any info is appreciated.

Thanks!
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Old 07-11-2010, 06:12   #22
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Karen,i think i read that it will be a 28ft powerboat, you are not delivering that on its own bottom unfortunatly.
Steve.
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Old 07-11-2010, 06:27   #23
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Just to throw this into the mix: you could have a trailer fabricated for you there. Steel is easily available, as are welders. You do the measurements and layout and have plans all ready to go. You could even order it up before you arrive. We built our own trailer for our 31-footer at a total cost of about $1000 (granted -- five years ago, before steel jumped in price). Just a thought, if this might allow a wider variety of boat-shipping options. . . .
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Old 07-11-2010, 12:38   #24
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firstly a 10,000lbs or 4.5 metric tons approx is a professional haulier option only in the EU. This is "convoy exceptional" stuff, forget driving that anything other then around the corner.( 28 feet at 4.5 tons what is it, my 8 metre four winns was only 2,5 tons).

Quote:
The methods described to you are as safe as can possibly be applied.
All boat transport via cargo has its risks but great care is applied, highly trained dockside personnel mathematically calculate weight and balance during transit and the boat is protected as much as possible from the elements. The Captain also is chosen for his expertise in the passage to re route where necessary for avoidance of weather inflicted stress and motion on the transporting vessel as these sail the Atlantic all year round - including hurricane season.
Karen, your having a laugh, Ive seen all types of stuff, if you ship via container vessel , then you better protect the boat well as it will be treated like a container. as to weather inflcited streess,, these boys these days just steam through it.

Break bulk will be a lot easier on the boat , but its costly.

In practice my friend, shipping a 28 footer to europe and back is not cost effective, Sell it in the US, buy one in the EU or Croatia, zillions for sale.

Dave

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Old 07-11-2010, 16:09   #25
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firstly a 10,000lbs or 4.5 metric tons approx is a professional haulier option only in the EU. This is "convoy exceptional" stuff, forget driving that anything other then around the corner.( 28 feet at 4.5 tons what is it, my 8 metre four winns was only 2,5 tons).



Karen, your having a laugh, Ive seen all types of stuff, if you ship via container vessel , then you better protect the boat well as it will be treated like a container. as to weather inflcited streess,, these boys these days just steam through it.

Break bulk will be a lot easier on the boat , but its costly.

In practice my friend, shipping a 28 footer to europe and back is not cost effective, Sell it in the US, buy one in the EU or Croatia, zillions for sale.

Dave

Dave
The boat will not be hauled back to the US, it will be permanently moored in Croatia and used by us in the summers. The haul is one time only from the US to Croatia. It will be hauled one time from the US to Croatia. The boat is 3000kg plus the weight of the trailer. A 'like' Four Winns in Croatia runs twice as much in Croatia than it does in the US.
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Old 07-11-2010, 17:21   #26
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I've worked aboard container ships and have my master's licesne to sail them... the only questions are:
1) Will it be insured?
2) Do you like to gamble?

I say this because if the ship hits bad weather, and the boat is not in an enclosed container, it will be damaged and there is a chance of it being lost to sea.

Will it not fit inside an enclosed 40' container?

Here are the safe options :
1) Ask, and pay extra, for the boat to be stored below decks. With a watertight hatch between your boat and the ocean... it will weather any storm provided it's properly lashed and the ship does not sink.
2)Transport it with a carrier that specilizes in yacht tranport, my favorite is DockWise.

The second option is probably better despite the fact the boat will be exposed to the elements beacause... container ships do not divert for storms, they are on too tight of schedules an must make their deliveries on time. Dockwise will (and does) keep well clear of bad weather. It will also be able to insure your boat for the voyage this way.
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:55   #27
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I've worked aboard container ships and have my master's licesne to sail them... the only questions are:
1) Will it be insured?
2) Do you like to gamble?

I say this because if the ship hits bad weather, and the boat is not in an enclosed container, it will be damaged and there is a chance of it being lost to sea.

Will it not fit inside an enclosed 40' container?

Here are the safe options :
1) Ask, and pay extra, for the boat to be stored below decks. With a watertight hatch between your boat and the ocean... it will weather any storm provided it's properly lashed and the ship does not sink.
2)Transport it with a carrier that specilizes in yacht tranport, my favorite is DockWise.

The second option is probably better despite the fact the boat will be exposed to the elements beacause... container ships do not divert for storms, they are on too tight of schedules an must make their deliveries on time. Dockwise will (and does) keep well clear of bad weather. It will also be able to insure your boat for the voyage this way.
I do not think the boat will fit into a 40ft cargo because of its width (2.59m) (I believe the cargo ship has something like 2.24m width). The RoRo boats do carry trailer-able boats, however they only ship to specific ports and none in the Adriatic. They do ship to Bremerhaven, Germany however the cost of transport by land from Germany to Croatia is very high (as the boat needs to go on an oversized truck etc).

It has then been suggested we look into carrier that ships cargo directly to the Adriatic and see if any of them would accept to carry the boat.
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Old 08-11-2010, 08:30   #28
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Chances are the weather (and your boat) will be fine.

When is the move planned? I'd avoid the winter north atlantic at all costs. You can get a pilot chart then trace a great circle course (don't just draw a straight line mercator) between the US port and Gibralter on some wax paper and lay it down over each month... this will give you a rough idea of a good weather window.

As far as lashing... the IMO stuff is just a sales pitch as the rules leave much open to interpretation. Tell the shipper you want to review the stowage diagram for your vessel before it sets sail... then have an expert review it (you can pay someone or just post it to an online forum of ship Captains). If you want to take the DIY approach then buy study the plans in the book "Lashing And Securing Of Deck Cargos, By John Knott" published by the Nautical Institute.
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Old 11-11-2010, 04:45   #29
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Why not contact a specialist dealing in boat transport rather than reinventing the wheeel?

Peters and May are one UK firm who move more than 8,000 boats around the globe. Sevenseas (or Sevenstars? - sorry) are another US based organisation.

Some they ship on container boats, others go on / in special yacht carriers.

They all run services USA to Italy where they can offload into the water, and you could then drive your boat over to Croatia in less than a day.

Cheers
JOHN
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