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Old 01-05-2011, 15:16   #76
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Re: Tips for Greece

Captain Mike, I use the generator to of course recharge my battery bank which is over 1000 amp hours. Also it runs for the holding plate refrigeration. I also have a large watermaker, dive compressor, clothes washer and dryer, and air conditioning. I will have between 6 and 10 people on board at all times which is going to require a lot of power.

Palarran actually has two generators, a 12kva and 8kva. I had looked at removing the 12kva and installing a 5kva. Before, with the trade-in, the cost would be about $5000 to downsize, even though the 12kva is in new condition. Now, when I look at the price of diesel, it may make sense because most of the time I could run the 5kva unit. As a bonus the generator weighs 500 pounds less and takes up 1/2 of the space.
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Old 01-05-2011, 16:18   #77
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Re: Tips for Greece

Quote:
Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
Captain Mike, I use the generator to of course recharge my battery bank which is over 1000 amp hours. Also it runs for the holding plate refrigeration. I also have a large watermaker, dive compressor, clothes washer and dryer, and air conditioning. I will have between 6 and 10 people on board at all times which is going to require a lot of power.

Palarran actually has two generators, a 12kva and 8kva. I had looked at removing the 12kva and installing a 5kva. Before, with the trade-in, the cost would be about $5000 to downsize, even though the 12kva is in new condition. Now, when I look at the price of diesel, it may make sense because most of the time I could run the 5kva unit. As a bonus the generator weighs 500 pounds less and takes up 1/2 of the space.
Hmmmmm

Excuse me I am not being rude but it sounds like you have a floating 4 double bed ensuite condo.
Are you using this boat commercially or is it friends and family.

Friends and family tell them to be more economic.

If you have fresh water heads with a flush tank install half flush and full flush toilet cisterns wrap a brick in kitchen foil put it in the tank less available space for water.

Otherwise use salt water for the heads, Showering use seawater rinse off in fresh water, dish wash in salt again rinse off in fresh. (NOT IF YOU ARE IN PORT dirty water)

There are fresh water makers that can be towed, they spin so no energy required from fossil fuel.
There is Wind Power and Solar power, Dive compressor could be a petrol jenny.

Air con in port plug into shore power. Don't need it when cruising any way its bad for your health.

Insulate the boat put in double glazing if you must look through the ports/windows other wise good double curtains with a sun reflector on the outside.

I live in Greece no air con for me my house is no more than 21 degrees in the summer I just set it up right shutters on the outside of the windows keeps the sun out leave the doors and windows open for ventilation if it gets really hot outside its been 48 here I shut the door and put a ceiling fan on.

The drinking water here is €1.58 for a pack of 6 1.5 litre bottles.
Most water in Greece can be drunk fill up at the quay with a hose pipe some of the bottled water is worse than the water supplied by the municipalities.
Who knows how long the bottled water has been left in the sun. multiples bacteria.

If you have a clothes washer and dryer then people are going to use them I bet they would not do so much washing if they had to do it by hand.

Take them out less weight less power and use the space for something else, Sorry I got carried away I only have a small boat so we have learned to utilise what we have.
I expect you also have a microwave, electric kettle, the ladies use hair dryers,
Fridges Freezers. TV's lots of Lights etc. Central heating, hot water on tap.
need I go on.

Don't think about how you can save and use the same power. Think how can I lower the power use by changing the power using items to those that use less or just get rid of some unnecessary luxuries. Then reduce the mechanics of making the power.

Holding plate refrigeration.

Insulation
How much is enough? Is more always better? The answer to these questions like so many questions is "it depends". Insulation works on a diminishing return the first inch gives the most benefit and each additional inch provides less benefit.

Heat gets into the cabinet not only thru the insulation but also thru opening the door or putting warm things in to the refrigerator, less than perfect seals, the door frame, etc. The shape of the box is a huge factor since it is the surface area not simply the volume that is important.

In general the rule of thumb goes like this:

For a refrigerator box:
· 4 cu ft or less use a minimum of 2 inches.
· 6 cu ft will need 3 inches
· bigger than 8 cu ft needs 4 inches

For a freezer:
· 2 cu ft or less 4 inches minimum
· 4 cu ft or less 5 inches
· larger than 4 cu ft 6 inches.

What kind of insulation? Recommended is extruded polystyrene - such as Dow Blueboard or Owens Insulpink - it is conservatively rated at R-5 per inch and will not absorb moisture so it will maintain its insulation value. It is easy to work with, easy to obtain at a local builders supply and not expensive. Other foams may have higher initial insulation values but may quickly degrade in the wet marine environment. Vacuum panels can achieve much higher insulation values but they are very expensive, fragile and difficult to handle.

To summarize
· Keep the box small and an efficient shape (square is the ideal).
· A front loading box is not a problem as long as the door seals are tight.
· If you have a separate freezer be sure to have it well insulated and no larger than necessary - empty space in a freezer will still use power.
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Old 01-05-2011, 16:50   #78
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Re: Tips for Greece

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Originally Posted by Capitain Mike View Post
Hmmmmm

Excuse me I am not being rude but it sounds like you have a floating 4 double bed ensuite condo.
Are you using this boat commercially or is it friends and family.
Your not rude at all - it is a floating condo. You pretty much nailed it. But, it's way cheaper to provide these things then replace my wife with one who doesn't need them. The boat is just for family and friends.

As for fresh water, I like it and a lot of it. We use between 100 and 200 gallons per day. We don't buy bottled water now. The dive compressor was already with the boat and I don't want anything that burns regular gas inside my hull. The refrigeration provides us with the ability to load up at large discount grocery stores which saves money and gives us better selection. We almost never use the air conditioning.

I have replaced all the light bulbs with LED's and it has cut down my power consumption significantly. I probably could get by running the generator for less time, but would need to run it three times per day instead of two. Maybe 1.5 hours in the morning, afternoon, and late night.

But the simple fact is that it's not going to be cheap. If I was too concerned about spending money on gas, I wouldn't go because food costs will I'm sure be much more. You must know how much it is to eat at a restaurant - for 10!!

Thank you very much for your suggestions. I am working on the final preperations for Palarran. It is now only 1 year before I leave.
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Old 01-05-2011, 16:59   #79
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Re: Tips for Greece

Double Whiskey, Captain Mike, and Beneteau500,
If you guys have time to check out my route I would appreciate it. It was posted previously. I'm going to start to add more detail this month. Thank you.
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Old 02-05-2011, 02:18   #80
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Re: Tips for Greece

Quote:
Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
Your not rude at all - it is a floating condo. You pretty much nailed it. But, it's way cheaper to provide these things then replace my wife with one who doesn't need them. The boat is just for family and friends.

As for fresh water, I like it and a lot of it. We use between 100 and 200 gallons per day. We don't buy bottled water now. The dive compressor was already with the boat and I don't want anything that burns regular gas inside my hull. The refrigeration provides us with the ability to load up at large discount grocery stores which saves money and gives us better selection. We almost never use the air conditioning.

I have replaced all the light bulbs with LED's and it has cut down my power consumption significantly. I probably could get by running the generator for less time, but would need to run it three times per day instead of two. Maybe 1.5 hours in the morning, afternoon, and late night.

But the simple fact is that it's not going to be cheap. If I was too concerned about spending money on gas, I wouldn't go because food costs will I'm sure be much more. You must know how much it is to eat at a restaurant - for 10!!

Thank you very much for your suggestions. I am working on the final preperations for Palarran. It is now only 1 year before I leave.
3 in our family we are lucky I suppose.

We don't drink or smoke from choice. We don't eat out,

(A) it's to expensive, we cannot afford tourist holiday prices we live here all the year round. (B) We don't want to get bad stomachs.

Don't forget to allow an extra cash backup of at least 30% on everything. If it is instruments 100.

Try to keep it simple less problems with parts and labour if you can't do it all yourself. Where are you going to be cruising? make it Africa and you can get a good price for the wife. I am a
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Old 02-05-2011, 07:09   #81
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Re: Tips for Greece

Thanks Captain Mike,
The problem with selling the one I have is that I've heard the price for a new one has gone WAY WAY up

I plan on keeping it as simple as a complicated trip like this will allow. Fortunately, I have two of everything on board and for critical systems, extra parts.
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Old 02-05-2011, 07:26   #82
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Re: Tips for Greece

if space permitted it would really be worthwile fitting a 2.5 kv unit,currently toying with an aircooled lombardini that i've marinised runs on about .5 liter of diesel an hour,also have the same 240 v holding plate system that will run off an inverter as well,making it unnessacary to run the genny as frequently,though the solar panels are a big expense,but one off.
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Old 02-05-2011, 13:13   #83
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Re: Tips for Greece

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if space permitted it would really be worthwile fitting a 2.5 kv unit,currently toying with an aircooled lombardini that i've marinised runs on about .5 liter of diesel an hour,also have the same 240 v holding plate system that will run off an inverter as well,making it unnessacary to run the genny as frequently,though the solar panels are a big expense,but one off.
I like
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Old 02-05-2011, 13:17   #84
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Re: Tips for Greece

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Thanks Captain Mike,
The problem with selling the one I have is that I've heard the price for a new one has gone WAY WAY up

I plan on keeping it as simple as a complicated trip like this will allow. Fortunately, I have two of everything on board and for critical systems, extra parts.
Bet you have not got two wives on board.
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Old 03-05-2011, 04:06   #85
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Re: Tips for Greece

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Is 1.75 here a litre already, more sails less engine
I bought some yesterday
24 litres @1.87 =45€
Glad I have a Sail and a small boat Time to downsize every body
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Old 26-05-2011, 03:35   #86
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Re: Tips for Greece

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Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky View Post
The season in Med is closer and closer, so I'm starting this thread for exchange of tips for summer cruise in Greece.

For the begenning my first tip:

LEVITHA ISLAND (NISIDA LEVITHA)

Here is the link for GoogleMaps:

Levitha


It is just a tiny piece of rock in the middle of nowhere (really between the Dodecanese and Cyclades - formally belongs to Dodecanese, as part of Leros community, but actually it is closer to Amorgos in Cyclades).

The island is unspoilt place, without water tap or electricity, but it has a fine anchorage, completely protected from Meltemi. Only one family of four or five live there and they run small tavern. Fantastic grilled fish and - if You were lucky - You will find there the best, probably, grilled lobster in Aegean.

Definitely worth a visit

I loved Loutra on Kydnos, where you can bath in unspoiled hot water running into the harbour.
I will also go for the 3rd time to Levitha... nice spot indeed
Serifos is also a nice place to be. Hire a scooter and go to the town on the top (you can also go on foot).
A very nice town is Naoussa (but almost no place in the harbour : 6 or 7 boats perhaps, don't come too close to the quay with the stern ! You can always go on anchor in the baye on the north.
A really very nice place is : Symi (in the south), you can go to the main harbour but also anchor in the panormitis bay (but there are no provisions, onluy a café-restaurant). What we dit is hiring a scooter and going araound the island to Panormitis. Really very beautiful.

Also Myconos is worth visiting.

(We also love Datça in Turkey : you feel as on one of the big yachts in St Tropez ...)

I should not go to :
Tinos
Rhodos (no possibility to find a place in the harbour and a lot of paperwork to do, especially as we did with a Turkish Bavaria 50. It took us more than 4 hours to get the paperork done ! I counted and we had to go to 17 (seventeen !) different offices to collect stamps ..). But the town is very nice. So if you go there, go at least for 2 days.

Frederik

We sail on 4th june - 18th june:
bodrum, kalymnos, leros, levitha, amorgos (ay anna), schoinoussa, naxos, ios, astypaleia, nisyros
(we planned to go to Santorini, but I read Vlikhada is silted (or is it dredged now ?). I was twice in Vlikhada but at that time we had no problems with d-the debt. Any experience from the latest visits ?
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Old 28-05-2011, 02:33   #87
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Re: Tips for Greece

Dont forget Sifnos, and south west cost Milos. nices places.
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Old 28-05-2011, 06:29   #88
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Re: Tips for Greece

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Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
Your not rude at all - it is a floating condo. You pretty much nailed it. But, it's way cheaper to provide these things then replace my wife with one who doesn't need them. The boat is just for family and friends.

As for fresh water, I like it and a lot of it. We use between 100 and 200 gallons per day. We don't buy bottled water now. The dive compressor was already with the boat and I don't want anything that burns regular gas inside my hull. The refrigeration provides us with the ability to load up at large discount grocery stores which saves money and gives us better selection. We almost never use the air conditioning.

I have replaced all the light bulbs with LED's and it has cut down my power consumption significantly. I probably could get by running the generator for less time, but would need to run it three times per day instead of two. Maybe 1.5 hours in the morning, afternoon, and late night.

But the simple fact is that it's not going to be cheap. If I was too concerned about spending money on gas, I wouldn't go because food costs will I'm sure be much more. You must know how much it is to eat at a restaurant - for 10!!

Thank you very much for your suggestions. I am working on the final preperations for Palarran. It is now only 1 year before I leave.
I shudder to think how much it would cost each day just to make 200 gallons of water from diesel at a price around $10 gallon. I pay $7.50 gallon for diesel and make 50 gallons of water a week and that's bad enough.

Scary.
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Old 28-05-2011, 08:52   #89
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Re: Tips for Greece

I hear ya Savior. But in the big picture, the main expense is just getting there. 2 months of sailing, airfare, repairs, etc make the cost of diesel look like penny's.

I had asked on the Croatia thread about what we call "farmers markets". Many of the islands have fresh produce they sell on specific days in villages. Is there some way to know when and where these markets are?

We will probably buy our bulk food in Crete and Piraeus. We will need to get fresh food every week and I'd like to go the the markets.
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Old 28-05-2011, 08:59   #90
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Re: Tips for Greece

On another note, many American's have wondered what to do about getting an international sailing certificate. It is now apparently being required in Greece and Spain. Most countries require it but don't enforce the rule.

I've made some calls and done the research and the best option is taking ASA 101, 103, and 104 and then applying for their international proficiency certificate. See link:
International Proficiency Certification - American Sailing Association
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