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Old 27-05-2014, 10:20   #31
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Re: Should A Non Eu Boat Sail Across The Atlantic To Sail The Med

Okay, I think I get it now. Sail to England, drink beer and eat snake and pygmy pie, cast off for Gothenburg and check in, starting the official clock. Wend my way through the lakes and canals (assuming I can make the first lock with a 24 foot beam), exit through the archipelago north of Stockholm, zoom down the east coast of Sweden, get through the canal to the Channel, clocking out of EU/Shengenland, and return to the pubs and late summer in England before heading southwest and home. Is that a correct assumption for a US boat not wanting to invoke the wrath of the EU?
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Old 27-05-2014, 10:34   #32
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Re: Should A Non Eu Boat Sail Across The Atlantic To Sail The Med

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Is that a correct assumption for a US boat not wanting to invoke the wrath of the EU?

Aye, aye, Sir!
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Old 27-05-2014, 11:06   #33
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Re: Should A Non Eu Boat Sail Across The Atlantic To Sail The Med

Thanks, folks! I'm off to the store for some lotto tickets.
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Old 28-05-2014, 04:24   #34
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Re: Should A Non Eu Boat Sail Across The Atlantic To Sail The Med

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Lets not mix the whole EU on this. It is just the Schengen countries. We Brits have nothing to do with that!

OP can go and spend a winter in England to reset his Schengen clock
?????...UK = Schengen country since May 29th 2000
but how about Monaco?? or Albania...

Schengen countries:http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengener_Abkommen
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Old 28-05-2014, 04:33   #35
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Re: Should A Non Eu Boat Sail Across The Atlantic To Sail The Med

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?????...UK = Schengen country since May 29th 2000
but how about Monaco?? or Albania...

Schengen countries:Schengener Abkommen – Wikipedia
No.
Britain is not part of the agreement neither is Ireland. They apply opt outs and therefore were snubbed by the rest.

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Old 28-05-2014, 06:26   #36
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Re: should a non eu boat sail across the atlantic to sail the med

[QUOTE=carstenb;1550783]Worse - same marina.

Sorry - while I have a lot of sympathy for foreign boats that find EU rules restrictive - no way are they as restrictive as the us ones.[/QUOTE

Ah yes the paper work that you have to go to the port captain and get stamped in and out at each port. Well sometimes that happens and sometimes it does not. We have been to ports where they ask why we are there and for others paperwork and stamps both coming and going. And do not plan on a early out if you have to stamp out because the opening times are sometime between 0800 and 0900. We have sailed the entire caribbean and have gotten use to the customs issues so no big deal. Just have to work with it.

Please remember that the usa east coast is what about 2000nm give or take -- if you add the gulf coast that almost no one cruises add about what 1500nm -- so say the usa coast is 3500 nm give or take - correct me if i am wrong -please

Then let's take the EU coast from Lagos up and around and include Greece but not all the coast line islands and you get say 5000nm if you include Cyprus, Sardinia and Coscia -- and that does not include the east coast of Europe from Portugal up to Denmark and across --

Also please remember that the USA is one country but the EU is not one country - it would be different if France said 45 days, Spain said 90 days, Portugal said 30 days ect -


as for the 90 days not sure how they do it but we have south african friends that spent a lot more than 90 days in the usa and will do it again -

As for the boat planning that is planning a trip over - i would seriously consider not doing it -- I would not even charter as there are 2 winds here and even the locals joke about it - to much wind and to little wind -- I am not sure why you want to sail over and what you want to see - we came to see the culture and history and would have been much better flying over and renting a camper van --

We did consider winter over in Spain and even talked to the national police in Madrid about it and they told us to just stay. But we fly home to see the kids for about 2-3 weeks each year and we have been told by many people that the customs and immigration at the airports really check days and you could get fined and/or red stamped and not allowed back in so it is not worth the risk

As for our summer - we are 28 days into it and will spend most of our summer in the area between Albania and Croatia - we will have to save about 14-21 days to return to Italy for the sail back to Tunisia for next winter --

We are not disappointed in what we are seeing and doing - just would like to see a lot more and do a lot more
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Old 28-05-2014, 06:37   #37
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Re: Should A Non Eu Boat Sail Across The Atlantic To Sail The Med

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No.
Britain is not part of the agreement neither is Ireland. They apply opt outs and therefore were snubbed by the rest.
Well, it 's bit difficult...but afaik they are using the Schengen Info System SIS II for Europol and Eurojust too.
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Old 28-05-2014, 06:55   #38
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Re: Should A Non Eu Boat Sail Across The Atlantic To Sail The Med

It is possible to enter under a non-schengen visa. We are Australian, and were going to be limited by the 90 Schengen requirement in Greece. We spoke to the Greek Embassy, and found that we could apply for a renewable 1 year visa back in Australia. We happened to be visiting Australia, and applied for the visa, known as a 'Visa for those with independent means'. You have to have a police check, proof of funds, insurance etc, but we got the Visa.

We'd had a 3 year residence permit in Turkey, now we have a renewable Greek Visa, so that can be our 'safety hole' for a while. I think similar regulations apply in other countries, and some don't care to enforce Shengen rules.

I wouldn't be put off by the 90 day deal. We've been in the Med for 2 years now with no worries.

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Old 28-05-2014, 07:10   #39
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Re: Should A Non Eu Boat Sail Across The Atlantic To Sail The Med

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Well, it 's bit difficult...but afaik they are using the Schengen Info System SIS II for Europol and Eurojust too.
I found that NOt belonging to it caused me a few issues in Spain.... so I dont know to what you are refering to. Britain is NOT part of it.
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Old 28-05-2014, 07:25   #40
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Re: Should A Non Eu Boat Sail Across The Atlantic To Sail The Med

Most - if not all - countries of Schengen treaty have double system: Schengen Visas and country visas. Regulation regarding country visas vary from country to country. So it is to visitors choice - to obtain Schengen visa, which is available for convenience of quite short time visitors wishing to travel within EU (it is really good thing for most of the tourists), or to apply for separate visas from countries You want to visit. In the second situation You just need to ignore the Schengen and do it good old way, dealing with all countries You want to visit. More hassle of course, but please remember, EU (even Schengen members only) is still not one country. Joint Schengen visa is to accomodate most of tourists needs, but is not necessary and may be not so convenient to some. Anyway, nobody is forced to use it - it is not sole and only mean of entering the EU countries, it is a matter of convenience for most.
Multiple visas are unconvenient for travelling inside Europe by train or car (not many places to check - in, check out) but by yacht or by plane there is not a problem. This way You can stay in Europe for a very long time, travelling from one country to another. Of course - You need to adjust to the demands of separate countries, kinds of visas they are issuing and so on, but it is not different than for the rest of the world
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Old 28-05-2014, 09:02   #41
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Re: Should A Non Eu Boat Sail Across The Atlantic To Sail The Med

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as for the 90 days not sure how they do it but we have south african friends that spent a lot more than 90 days in the usa and will do it again -
Don't forget the countless Canadian snowbirds who flock to the US for 179 days a year. Even then, they could stay longer but are avoiding being considered US residents by the IRS. The 90 day limit may apply only to the boats.
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Old 29-05-2014, 02:38   #42
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Should A Non Eu Boat Sail Across The Atlantic To Sail The Med

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Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky View Post
Most - if not all - countries of Schengen treaty have double system: Schengen Visas and country visas. Regulation regarding country visas vary from country to country. So it is to visitors choice - to obtain Schengen visa, which is available for convenience of quite short time visitors wishing to travel within EU (it is really good thing for most of the tourists), or to apply for separate visas from countries You want to visit. In the second situation You just need to ignore the Schengen and do it good old way, dealing with all countries You want to visit. More hassle of course, but please remember, EU (even Schengen members only) is still not one country. Joint Schengen visa is to accomodate most of tourists needs, but is not necessary and may be not so convenient to some. Anyway, nobody is forced to use it - it is not sole and only mean of entering the EU countries, it is a matter of convenience for most.
Multiple visas are unconvenient for travelling inside Europe by train or car (not many places to check - in, check out) but by yacht or by plane there is not a problem. This way You can stay in Europe for a very long time, travelling from one country to another. Of course - You need to adjust to the demands of separate countries, kinds of visas they are issuing and so on, but it is not different than for the rest of the world

Unfortunately for US citizens, this simply isn't true. Individual Schengen countries do not in general have long stay visas, that cruisers can access ( CF has several failed attempts listed ) some countries have study visas , one or two have cultural appreciation visas etc, most require proof of residence in that country.

Citizens of NZ benefit from a series of bilateral agreements that allow them to sidestep Schengen, Australians have a more restricted set of agreements with certain countries, but it's allows them to sidestep many Schengen issues. These agreements pre-date Schengen.

Others unfortunately will find that there are very few, almost zero longer stay visas that in practice can actually be obtained. In practice on signing the Schengen Acquis, countries restricted or removed previous tourist visas or harmonised stay lengths and procedures. The effect is a function of no internal land borders. Hence there has to be a consistent short stay approach taken.

It's convenient for sone to ignore the federalised nature of the EU. In many cases it's more harmonised and federalised then the US , in other cases it's not, because it's at a different stage of federal development. Considerable national sovereignty has been transferred to the EU state as a result. Schengen ( which did nt start out as a EU treaty actually ,though it is now ) is somewhat different as it was not a directive from the EU, rather a multi-lateral agreement.

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Old 29-05-2014, 02:53   #43
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Should A Non Eu Boat Sail Across The Atlantic To Sail The Med

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Also please remember that the USA is one country but the EU is not one country - it would be different if France said 45 days, Spain said 90 days, Portugal said 30 days ect -
For all intents and purposes, the EU, especially the euro zone is a federated state. In that regards it has more similarities to the US then you might think, even The UK implements all the EU treaties in full. To suggest the US is one country , is to ignore the realities of state law ( US) which is often more diverse then internal difference in EU state law.

There are areas of of law and practice in the EU that are not as integrated as there are in the US, like combined military ( there is the RRF ) foreign relations etc, but equally there are others that are much more harmonised then the US , like working time , environmental laws, tax ( vat ) , social services, privacy etc.

Unfortunately the 90 day rule exists and is really the only game in town. The southern EU states are under enormous pressure to stem illegal immigrants , especially from the more wealthy northern states. This has led to increasing crackdown, improved ( improving computer systems ) and other initiatives. Short of visa reform to enable cruisers to stay longer, the situation is only going to get tougher and more regulated, I'm afraid.

Having said that , why the focus on the med , in summer time Ireland , the UK , the Northern European a d Baltic area are fantastic cruising destination, yes it's cooler, yes it rains more, but far less crowde, arguably friendlier, cheaper, and plenty of the cuisine and history that the continent is world famous for.

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Old 29-05-2014, 03:03   #44
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Re: Should A Non Eu Boat Sail Across The Atlantic To Sail The Med

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Having said that , why the focus on the med , in summer time Ireland , the UK , the Northern European a d Baltic area are fantastic cruising destination, yes it's cooler, yes it rains more, but far less crowde, arguably friendlier, cheaper, and plenty of the cuisine and history that the continent is world famous for.

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Agreed. Dockhead is now experiencing the Med for the first time. I'm going to be pleased to hear his evaluation of cruising the Baltic at the end of the summer.
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Old 29-05-2014, 04:00   #45
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Re: Should A Non Eu Boat Sail Across The Atlantic To Sail The Med

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But You are Brit, and Brits try to disintegrate EU by doing everything upside down, so I do not know
Or put another way, Britain doesn't sign up to rules which have no real function. A three month restriction is this day and age has little logic.

As for Britain being a bad European we still pay the third largest amount into it's funds. Maybe things have changed but I seem to remember Poland takes out the largest amount of money!!
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