Should A Non Eu Boat Sail Across The Atlantic To Sail The Med

[monte]

I'm not sure why your flogging a dead horse mate, but fact is as goat boating pointed out, and you responded that it was BS, there is no such thing as a schengen buisness visa. Period.

[savoir]

No Schengen business visa ? Really ?

There are two types of business visa that I know about but there may be others. I have already mentioned the long stay for business purposes visa. There is another called a class C or circulation visa which is aimed at regular business travelers and has a term of 1 - 5 years.

Would a picture make it easier to understand ? I can help there too.

[monte]

Mate that's a standard 90 day schengen visa. Some countries nationalities don't receive one and have to apply in advance, which I'm guessing is the case here. Obviously not an Australian.

[savoir]

Tourist visas never feature the word " circulation " and rarely have a one year term. For your information here is a sample long stay Schengen business visa . . . . . . or maybe it's just another tourist visa.

[monte]

You are wrong on both counts. The fist in French translates to ' short stay'
The second is a transit visa which allows the person to transit the Netherlands en route to their destination for less than one day. From the advice given by others here, and the amount of information available online it's not hard for the average person to comprehend.

[jckb]

A few points to be aware of.

Once you're in Schengen, there are no internal movement checks on people or goods. So an extended visitors or tourist permission to stay in one country operates for that country only, and time in Schengen outside that country is (in law) limited to 90 days per 180.

However, with no internal order controls, there is no method of tracking time outside the host country. The log book has been mentioned as a means of tracking people. However, log books may record where the boat has been, but not necessarily the people on board. So this is not an effective means of monitoring people movement.

If the type of extended visa you hold includes a permission to reside (as apart from permission to visit or tour) you may be deemed an EU resident. In this case, there are many conditions to be met before you can use a non-VAT paid boat within the EU.

Foreign flagged boats, and the residence status of their users, are fairly frequently checked by the more knowledgeable port authorities, who are well aware of a number of VAT avoidance scams in use.

You'll find a fairly concise listing of these situations and how to deal with them at Time Abroad | JimB Sail (look for the "Non EU" heading.)

I give regular talks on this subject at the London Boat Show, and at different venues for The Cruising Association (a British information source for any cruising folk who become members). Every talk is a learning exercise as members bring up new sets of circumstances and the pitfalls they've discovered. Dave (Goboatingnow, on this forum) is great at picking up my errors.

But I'm sure my stuff still has some mis-statements, so treat it with care, then check your particular situation with an embassy or local maritime lawyer if there are a few thousand dollars at stake. You've then got some comeback . . .

[monte]

Thanks Jck, always great info and thanks for maintaining your web page. It's an excellent resource I have used many times over the past few years! Highly recommended for anyone considering the topic of this thread

[DoubleWhisky]

Originally Posted by monte

You are wrong on both counts. The fist in French translates to ' short stay'
The second is a transit visa which allows the person to transit the Netherlands en route to their destination for less than one day. From the advice given by others here, and the amount of information available online it's not hard for the average person to comprehend.

Sorry Monte, but You are wrong.
The second one is "D" type visa - co called country visa.
It is good for a stay in Netherland for the time of its validity and for single transit through other Schengen states.

Cheers,

Tomasz

[savoir]

Originally Posted by monte

You are wrong on both counts. The fist in French translates to ' short stay'
The second is a transit visa which allows the person to transit the Netherlands en route to their destination for less than one day. From the advice given by others here, and the amount of information available online it's not hard for the average person to comprehend.

The first visa is a circulation visa with a term of one year. You will never see a tourist visa with a one year term or the word "circulation". It is aimed at business people making multiple short stays. The second is a business visa with a term of 7 months and marked with a "D". You will never see a regular tourist visa marked with a D or with a 7 month term. It is aimed at a business person staying principally in the Netherlands and transiting other Schengen countries. A regular tourist visa will be marked with a "C".

Schengen business visas are very real and I have put up examples of two types. It's time for you to put up some evidence to the contrary or get back under your bridge.

[DoubleWhisky]

Originally Posted by savoir

A regular tourist visa will be marked with a "C".

You are right, of course.
And first visa You presented is just "C" type visa (and marked as one)

Second one is netherland country visa (as I pointed above) and marked as "D" type.

"D" type visa is not exactly "Schengen visa". It is single country visa, allowed for by Schengen treaty.

Cheers

Tomasz

[monte]

You are correct tom, the second is in fact a country visa, nothing to do with schengen except it allows a transit through to reach the Netherlands.
As per below and as previously stated it does not allow movement in schengen states more than 90 days
The first is as per my previous post, it does not allow 1 year, it allows 90 days to be used between the dates marked on the visa as per above discussion.

Long sojourn or "national" Visas (NV), which are only valid for visits that are longer than 90 days (type D), with one or more entries, in the territory of the Schengen State whose diplomatic mission issued the visa. Holders of type D visas are permitted to circulate freely in Schengen countries other than the issuing one for a period of not more than 90 days per half-year and only if the visa is valid.

It's all pretty clear and id suggest anyone having trouble understanding the basics take a look at jckb's website for clarification or their own government sites.

We've been living with and dealing with it for the past few years and although it's a pain in the ass, I definitely wouldn't let it stop me from cruising the areas again. There's ways and means to handle things as mostly already posted earlier in this thread.

[savoir]

Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky

You are right, of course.
And first visa You presented is just "C" type visa (and marked as one)

Second one is netherland country visa (as I pointed above) and marked as "D" type.

"D" type visa is not exactly "Schengen visa". It is single country visa, allowed for by Schengen treaty.

Cheers

Tomasz

The visa in the first photograph is not a tourist visa. It is a circulation visa. Even though they are both marked C they are not the same. Regular tourist visas do not have a one year term.

If you don't want to believe me then maybe you will believe these guys.

Schengen visa - Comprehensive information about Schengen visa and Schengen travel insurance

[DoubleWhisky]

Originally Posted by savoir

The visa in the first photograph is not a tourist visa. It is a circulation visa. Even though they are both marked C they are not the same. Regular tourist visas do not have a one year term.

Yes, I understand Your message.
My message is it is still "C" visa, so it is good for 90 days out of 180

[DoubleWhisky]

Probably the 90+ per cent of cruising boats visiting EU from outside the Europe are from Australia, New Zealand, United States and Canada.
Type "C" visa is of no interest to them, as they do not need the "C" visa at all (under the visa waiver).

The "D" type visas are the possibility to extend the stay in EU if one is eligible for such a visa.

"D" type visa should be not mistaken for residence permit (temporary or long term).
Residence permit is no practicable solution for extending cruising in EU, as can cause numerous fiscal problems.

There are different situations and principles in different countries regarding the issuing the "D" type visa.
It always should be checked with local embassy or consulate as policies towards different countries vary.
It is always useful to have an assistance of the lawyer with practice in visa procedures of given country when applying for "D" type visa.

Frrom my limited knowledge the "D" type visas are not very difficult to obtain for France, Greece, Poland and Spain.

In France the interest in culture and some involvement in this can help
(running the non-ocassional blog regarding the culture, heritage and day to day living in different countries - for example) as You can be on "study cruise".

In Greece or Poland the winterization and overhauling of yacht can be a cause, for example (some kind of preliminary memorandum of agreement with local boatyard may be useful for this).

Every case mut be seen as completely individual in regard of "D" type visa, so internet information will be ever too limited. One need to make his own survey and check the matters at proper embassies and consulates, using competent assistance.

Cheers,

Tomasz

[BandB]

Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky

There are different situations and principles in different countries regarding the issuing the "D" type visa.
It always should be checked with local embassy or consulate as policies towards different countries vary.
It is always useful to have an assistance of the lawyer with practice in visa procedures of given country when applying for "D" type visa.

Frrom my limited knowledge the "D" type visas are not very difficult to obtain for France, Greece, Poland and Spain.

In France the interest in culture and some involvement in this can help
(running the non-ocassional blog regarding the culture, heritage and day to day living in different countries - for example) as You can be on "study cruise".

In Greece or Poland the winterization and overhauling of yacht can be a cause, for example (some kind of preliminary memorandum of agreement with local boatyard may be useful for this).

Every case mut be seen as completely individual in regard of "D" type visa, so internet information will be ever too limited. One need to make his own survey and check the matters at proper embassies and consulates, using competent assistance.

Cheers,

Tomasz

This is one of those situations all countries are still trying to sort. They want tourists and students and business owners to visit. They just don't want people to claim they're visiting 90 days and stay forever without going through proper procedures. They don't want illegal aliens. If someone wants to live there then they want them to become a resident.

But what you've said is very on target. Those countries (although I wasn't aware of Poland) plus perhaps more encourage it. My wife's an educator, I'm a business man, we both are writing. We were told by a visa attorney to just tell where we wanted to go and how long and he'd figure it out. Now that's still a few years away for us.