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Old 29-03-2013, 14:28   #1
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Schengren agreement and leaving france for usa after 90 days is up and getting back

OK - i kinda figured out that as an american i can get to the med and as long as i stay on the boat and behave myself i should not have an issue with the schengren agreement - HOWEVER - we had planned to winter over our first year in nice france and get there the first of oct and leave in march and stay on the boat in the water - we do not have anywhere in the usa to call home -
but i need to leave about the 7-8 of oct to fly to the usa for a brief visit - 2-3 weeks - and then return to the boat -
some folks have told me that as long as deal with port officials i would be ok but once i deal with airport officals i could have major problems either getting out without a major penalty or getting back in -
one thought would be to go to say gibraltor and cross to morocco for a few days then back to gibraltor and get our passports restamped and make sure we are out of the eu before the 90 days is up

one person - a canadian suggested i take the train to uk and fly from there but then i still may have the border issues -

anyone have any thoughts - or should i simply skip nice and winter over in morocco - it would seem a shame not to spend the time in europe with a base there instead of morocco -

thanks for your thoughts
chuck patty and svsoulmates
usa citizens but no house, no car, no phone and living on the water full time
on the hook portsmouth dominica
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Old 30-03-2013, 03:27   #2
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Re: Schengren agreement and leaving france for usa after 90 days is up and getting ba

The traps are: how long boats can stay, and how long people can stay, are separate issues. And if you (personally) spend more than 90 days in the Schengen area during the 180 days validity of your visa stamp (and that includes being on a boat) you risk being (a) fined and (b) being banned from re-entering. The size of fine, and period of ban depend on how long you've over-stayed - according to your visa stamps.

However, several countries around Europe are not part of the Schengen zone. UK, Channel Islands, Morocco, Gibraltar, Croatia,Turkey.

Also, some countries may forget or choose not to check you in if you enter by boat. In that case, if you attempt to leave by ferry or airport without checking in beforehand, they'll note you have entered illegally . . .

By carefully playing within the rules, it is possible to spend a few years cruising around Europe. But it's much easier if you're able to get a more extended visa or if you have right of residence in one or another Schengen country for a period.
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Old 30-03-2013, 04:01   #3
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Re: Schengren agreement and leaving france for usa after 90 days is up and getting ba

Chuckr, there have been two good threads aout this:

Schengen Agreement
and
Med to Caribbean Crossing Dilema - Schengen Problem?

Goboating now had lots of useful info and a possible way of extending time whilst still complying to the regulations.
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Old 30-03-2013, 10:36   #4
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Re: Schengren agreement and leaving france for usa after 90 days is up and getting ba

Have you looked into obtaining a long-stay visa for France? That won't count as Schengen Treaty visa time allotment. A couple of Americans have told us they were able to obtain long-stay visas for France. We don't speak French and would not enjoy wintering there. We contacted the Italian consulate about obtaining a long-stay visa and got nowhere. They would not consider a marina berth to be a residence address in Italy, which meant we would have to pay for both a marina berth and an apartment or villa in order to have an acceptable address. Plus, Italy would require us to purchase medical insurance that meets Italian requirements; USA insurance does not qualify. To obtain acceptable healthcare insurance for Italy would cost us about $4,000 each. So the idea of a long-stay visa was abandoned. Maybe France is easier to deal with about this.

Like you, we live full-time on our boat and do not have a dirt dwelling. But we will leave the boat and return to the USA and stay with various family members for the required 90-days out of the Schengen area. Good luck. Please post if you find it possible to obtain a long-stay visa for France and let us know what was required.

Judy
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Old 30-03-2013, 17:33   #5
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Ok, really forget the long term visa thing, its a specialised area, and not applicable . I've yet to meet anyone first hand that has got them living on a boat. There are really for work or study , etc. just stay under the radar. DO NOT however stay for more then 180 days in a calendar year though. ( you will technically become a resident and loose the VAT concession ) , it also helps to move marina at least once.

The Schengen Agreement does allow you just under 6 months , ie two contiguous , though not continuous stays,

Outside of that, yes I would be rightly concerned that flying out will cause you a return problem. And going to gib or the UK will not solve the issue. ( once the time is up you have to leave for a further 90 days )

Nice is a fantastic place to over winter , I spent 2x3 months on my boat there. You have access to France and Italy . Good tail connections. Don't miss the Friday/Saturday markets in Ventimillia , Nice is great for pizza,( not the rubbish you get elsewhere ). Socca, ( food not football ) , outdoor events, and the best Ice-cream on the planet. Outside of the tourist areas , its cheap , lts of English spoken, but always introduce yourself in French , and always say " bonjour" to everyone. Its the height of rudeness not to do so , in shops, cafes, etc

Very cheap bus sevice ( flat fee everywhere except airport ) great rail service too . ( and a beautiful way to see the Cote D' Azure

You can easily get lunch for 8-12 euros, dinner for 15-20 per head , great great provisioning

I just love the place , its one of the best parts of France and best of all, its a mix of Italian without having to live in Italy !!

the winter can be quite cold and wet of course , but just go skiing in the French or Italian alps. !

( the trick with 6 Months Schengen , is to start the 6month period but leave immediately , then return for the last 3 months of the 6 months , then out for a day and the next 90 in 180 starts , in effect giving you just less then 180 days in total. ( then your out for 90 of course ) but again you have to be careful about flying out and back , once you return within the valid 90 days period there's no issue.


Once I get my current startup up and running , I'm hoping to go back there ( my wife just adores the place )

Do sail to Corsica if you get a chance , or take the ferry.

Dave
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:21   #6
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Re: Schengren agreement and leaving france for usa after 90 days is up and getting ba

Thanks for all who replied -- we are rethinking our agenda and currently looking at Tunisa at least to start the winter over process and fly in back to the usa for a short visit -
and yes we have contacted the French embassey but from limited research we would have a better chance of find gold at the end of the rainbow than get a long term visa
thanks
chuck patty and svsoulmates
on the hook in portsmouth dominica
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:53   #7
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Re: Schengren agreement and leaving france for usa after 90 days is up and getting ba

France does have a 6 month non Schengen visa but I'm not qualified to advise on your chances of getting one. You do have to nominate an address. In your case application must be made in USA. Details here

Long stay visa for non professional purpose "visitor visa" - Consulat Général de France à Washington
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Old 02-04-2013, 13:40   #8
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Re: Schengren agreement and leaving france for usa after 90 days is up and getting ba

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post

Nice is a fantastic place to over winter , I spent 2x3 months on my boat there. You have access to France and Italy . Good tail connections. Don't miss the Friday/Saturday markets in Ventimillia , Nice is great for pizza,( not the rubbish you get elsewhere ). Socca, ( food not football ) , outdoor events, and the best Ice-cream on the planet. Outside of the tourist areas , its cheap , lts of English spoken, but always introduce yourself in French , and always say " bonjour" to everyone. Its the height of rudeness not to do so , in shops, cafes, etc

( the trick with 6 Months Schengen , is to start the 6month period but leave immediately , then return for the last 3 months of the 6 months , then out for a day and the next 90 in 180 starts , in effect giving you just less then 180 days in total. ( then your out for 90 of course ) but again you have to be careful about flying out and back , once you return within the valid 90 days period there's no issue.

Dave
I had to laugh at the tail connections! I think Dave meant rail connections. I agree that Nice is great and has great pizza. Antibes is also a very pleasant smaller village just up coast, and would be a quieter option.

But as far as the 6 month scheme. It in theory can work the way Dave suggests, but in reality it all depends on the immigration official that checks you in or out. It is what they determine as valid dates. Airports passport control is more strict. We have this problem all the time in Ukraine. It is best to keep on the 90 in, and 90 out plan. That way nobody can ever fine you or challenge the legality of your length of stay. The one day out plan works only if the border official decides not to do the exact day count. But not all officers are in good moods every day, and the next officer might not buy your one day trip out of zone. Best not to challenge the system by trying to get in by circumventing rules. Just my opinion!

I am under same deal in Ukraine, but do not like the thought of voluntarily or involuntarily becoming part of the penal system. So I do not partake in the one day renewal trip to Moldova, and do 90 in and 90 out, or get an extended visa.
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Old 02-04-2013, 13:45   #9
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Re: Schengren agreement and leaving france for usa after 90 days is up and getting ba

Oh. And to add to Dave's suggestions. Go across bridge in Ventimillia to seawall promenade. First cafe on right serves the best tortellini with pesto I have ever had. The flea market there is great too.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:28   #10
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Re: Schengren agreement and leaving france for usa after 90 days is up and getting ba

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France does have a 6 month non Schengen visa but I'm not qualified to advise on your chances of getting one. You do have to nominate an address. In your case application must be made in USA. Details here

Long stay visa for non professional purpose "visitor visa" - Consulat Général de France à Washington
Thanks for posting this link. Didn't think the Americans on the 2 boats who told us they have done this several times were lying when stating that they had obtained longer stay visas for France. The requirements listed at that link could be easily met IF the consulate will accept a marina rental berthing contract as equivalent to an apartment rental contract. The Italian consulate we contacted in Houston would not; maybe a French consulate would. Of course, that medical insurance requirement is still a problem for Americans.

Judy
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:24   #11
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Re: Schengren agreement and leaving france for usa after 90 days is up and getting ba

I regularly put the marina street address as my home address and leave out the business name. It's probably all part of getting old and forgetful.

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Old 03-04-2013, 17:27   #12
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Re: Schengren agreement and leaving france for usa after 90 days is up and getting ba

Quote:
Airports passport control is more strict. We have this problem all the time in Ukraine. It is best to keep on the 90 in, and 90 out plan. That way nobody can ever fine you or challenge the legality of your length of stay. The one day out plan works only if the border official decides not to do the exact day count. But not all officers are in good moods every day, and the next officer might not buy your one day trip out of zone. Best not to challenge the system by trying to get in by circumventing rules. Just my opinion!
Just to be clear , the method I outlined is perfectly legal, There was a court case that found in the person favour directly relevant to this method.

You see its not a 90 in 90 out, its 90 days in any 180, BUT the start of the 180 is determined by your "first visit", if that happens to be say for 2 days, then you can choose where in the remaining 178 days you spend the 88 days. So you could choose to spend that 88 days right at the end of 180 days, Hence at the end of that period, your have complied with the 90 in 180, and you are free to leave and immediately return , thereby starting another 90 in 180. This gives you a virtually contiguous 178 days.

Dave
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Old 03-04-2013, 17:33   #13
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Re: Schengren agreement and leaving france for usa after 90 days is up and getting ba

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F the consulate will accept a marina rental berthing contract
Like your going to get one of those in Med France!!. Maybe oof Dunkerque or something !!!

Dave
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Old 13-04-2013, 04:42   #14
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Re: Schengren agreement and leaving france for usa after 90 days is up and getting ba

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Just to be clear , the method I outlined is perfectly legal, There was a court case that found in the person favour directly relevant to this method.

You see its not a 90 in 90 out, its 90 days in any 180, BUT the start of the 180 is determined by your "first visit", if that happens to be say for 2 days, then you can choose where in the remaining 178 days you spend the 88 days. So you could choose to spend that 88 days right at the end of 180 days, Hence at the end of that period, your have complied with the 90 in 180, and you are free to leave and immediately return , thereby starting another 90 in 180. This gives you a virtually contiguous 178 days.

Dave
Do you have a link to this court case? Everything, I've seen (official country sites included) says they look back at the last 180 days and you are allowed up to 90 inside.

This would make life a lot easier.
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Old 13-04-2013, 05:34   #15
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Re: Schengren agreement and leaving france for usa after 90 days is up and getting ba

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Do you have a link to this court case? Everything, I've seen (official country sites included) says they look back at the last 180 days and you are allowed up to 90 inside.

This would make life a lot easier.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...5CJ0241:EN:PDF

Discussed in the threads:
8 Years in the Med?

Over winter in Europe strategy
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