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Old 24-03-2014, 19:09   #61
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Schengen rules have changed

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Originally Posted by monte View Post
Yeah Dave I think the major difference is the flag you are flying doesn't attract as much attention. We have an AIS transponer on board and I think that actually lessens suspicion from the authorities. At sea they can check our details without us even knowing and most people doing illegal activities wouldn't be transmitting vessel details and position. Ports closer to entry/exit routes tend to be more officious.



The Italian example I used was departing Otranto for Croatia is a large coast gaurd office that interrogated every new arrival, as well as Arriving in Italy from Croatia at Trani we had police, customs and coast guard all on board arguing among themselves about the legalities. Fortunately we had a lot of assistance from a local translator who knew more about the rules and regulations than the officials.



The last French boarding was sailing off the calanques they came alongside while we were en route, passed over a fishing net to take the vessel documents and after reviewing them told us they wanted to board when we arrived at our destination. They followed us for 45mins till we dropped anchor and came aboard for a quick inspection. They were nice enough and again explained the Schengen rules.



In most cases they have been friendly enough and we always have all our documents together in a folder with copies of all in case they request them, but I believe they are all well versed in the Shengen rules and wouldn't be so nice if they found you to be outside those rules.



We sailed the last 2 seasons from March to November, so averaging 2-3 boarding's per year isn't really much. We usually have a chat and ask about nearby anchorages etc. We probably anchor 80% of the time.



Portugal and Gibraltar were the only countries interested in our French dogs Pet Passport and vaccination certificates...

Hmm maybe things have changed a lot in the last two years since I was there. ( two summers worth. Whereas recently it was quick deliveries) Of course flying various EU flags help, but I've never seen French board yachts like you mentioned, drugs yes.

There has been a massive flap on on France over threats that the Italians were going to let the illegal immigrants go into France. All the borders began reappearing

Still can't figure your experiences. I know for a fact several non EU boats that are " pushing " Schengen. Maybe it has tightened up.

But there even was a poster to this thread that , said they were all laughing at us, worrying.

Hmmm very interesting

Ps were you boarded in framce, by the Gendarme Maritime or the local police , both are present on the water as are the Douane ( customs ) ,The Italians don't like the Douane IMHO.

Dave


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Old 24-03-2014, 20:18   #62
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Re: Schengen rules have changed

In France by the Douane. Once in Les Sables as we were returning to port, and another in the Calanques as described. It surprised me they didn't want to board immediately as they gave us ample time and opportunity to flush any contraband we might have had overboard, but I think they were more interested in discussing Schengen. They had a quick search on board, but by no means complete. We did see an Italian customs boarding yachts anchored in Ponza but we weren't on board at the time so they skipped us.
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Old 25-03-2014, 03:31   #63
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Re: Schengen rules have changed

In Europe (at least in The Netherlands) the coast guard often has multiple tasks:
- police
- environmental monitoring
- monitoring of fishing
- monitoring ships traffic
- monitoring of ships equipment
- monitoring of oil and gas rigs
- border control and customs

Quite handy, only one check or boarding (if any) for a visiting yacht.

BTW, boardings and the subsequent search is performed on a risc assessment. If your boat shows no signs of drugs trafficking (e.g. vague story on itinerary, only men on board with no vacation luggage, food stored in upper lockers, sailed track does not match with story, general impression does not 'fit') the search will be quite superficial.
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Old 25-03-2014, 03:38   #64
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Schengen rules have changed

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Originally Posted by monte View Post
In France by the Douane. Once in Les Sables as we were returning to port, and another in the Calanques as described. It surprised me they didn't want to board immediately as they gave us ample time and opportunity to flush any contraband we might have had overboard, but I think they were more interested in discussing Schengen. They had a quick search on board, but by no means complete. We did see an Italian customs boarding yachts anchored in Ponza but we weren't on board at the time so they skipped us.

Ah the Douane , funnily I don't beleive they have any immigration role, my understanding is that is the baliwick of the gendarme maritime, but talking to people they often board on one pretext when looking for something else.

I've had them aboard on drugs interdiction from time to time

Maybe there has been a clampdown in the last two years. Somebody's been naughty perhaps and that's spurred a bit of on water inspection

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Old 25-03-2014, 06:53   #65
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Re: Schengen rules have changed

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
So what happens to a cruiser if they overstay in the Med?
This subject is covered in some detail in Immigration and Customs rules for EU, Schengen and other countries | JimB Sail . This stuff is reviewed monthly. If you see errors or disagree, add a comment to the page. Dave, "Goboatingow", helped in its earlier incarnations!

I guess you're referring to non-EU crew, rather than a non-EU boat.

The only times you're likely to be caught out are if there's some boating or police incident, or if you try to exit the country by "approved means of transport" - ie, airlines or ferries.

Also, there's quite a big difference depending whether or not you have a valid entry stamp (an overstay) or no entry stamp (illegal immigration!).

Also, within Schengen and EU, the authorities pay far more attention to non-EU registered boats than they do to EU registered boats. Also, they track boats at sea in border areas (S Spain, Sicily, Dodecanese) much more closely than in other areas.

As already noted, Italy is lax in its controls. Also, Greece does not always book non-EU boat crews into the country; they assume you are spending all nights aboard. Several US crews have been fined when attempting to depart by air - without entry stamps to Schengen they were assumed illegal immigrants! Moral - make sure you have an entry stamp before trying to fly out of Schengen!

As Katy warned, the Schengen-wide database reporting is becoming ever more efficient, though still very leaky at the moment.

JimB
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Old 25-03-2014, 07:36   #66
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Re: Schengen rules have changed

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French are somewhere between the Spanish and Portuguese and have a similar size customs fleet to the Spanish. You are very likely to be boarded at anchor or en route and they will check your documents. They will count your days inside the zone and explain how many days you have remaining.
Quote:
Yeah Dave I think the major difference is the flag you are flying doesn't attract as much attention.
Our experiences mirror Rob's. We're flying non-EU flag, we don't charter, but we were boarded by French four times in two months we were sailing there last year. They did politely remind us how many months were left of our VAT-free status and how many days until the end of our Schengen. We were anchoring in Cote d'Azur in the beginning of high season.

It would seem as if they're slowly ramping up on enforcement. But maybe we just attract this kind of attention (a couple with a baby?).
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Old 25-03-2014, 18:33   #67
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Re: Schengen rules have changed

re Monte's comment: "
YEs I would fly directly to France, no paperwork needed and you will automatically have 3 months before you need to depart or arrive in Italy "

That would be ideal for us, but is that really the case? That would give us 90 days shengen + 364 days in Italy (90 of which can be spent in other shengen countries). Im concerned if we go to Italy via France (and maybe spain) that it may cause issues when we finally arrive in italy..... or try to leave italy....

Does anyone have experience with this situation?
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Old 25-03-2014, 23:39   #68
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Re: Schengen rules have changed

in 21 yrs of living full time in the eu on an aussie passport i have never had a prob and good see some one from my part of the world ( rosebud )
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Old 26-03-2014, 01:40   #69
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Re: Schengen rules have changed

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
....snipped.....


And please tell me exactly how it's affecting those 6 people.

Dave
Under the Schengen rules in effect prior to the rulings changed effective 18 October 2013 that Katiusha originally posted in this thread, it was perfectly legal to enter a Schengen country for a day to start a 'first entry' of a 180-day period, of which one was allowed to be within Schengen countries for a total of 90 days, each subsequent entry being labeled 're-entry.' At the end of that 180-day period, one was required to be outside Schengen countries at midnight of that day. The following day one could again check into a Schengen country to begin a second 180-day period, during which one would be allowed to be within Schengen countries for a total of 90 days. This allowed a back-to-back period of 89 days of the first 180-day period followed by 90 days of the second 180-day period. That was established with the Bot case in either 2005 or 2006.

The 6 people in this marina planned to follow what was the law up until 18 October 2013, as they had no knowledge of the rules being changed at that time (Thanks to Katiusha for informing us!). All 6 planned the back-to-back periods (as previously allowed) and cleared into a Schengen country for one day to start their first 180-day period. Marinas for next winter have already been paid; flights back to home countries have already been purchased for the required minimum 90 days out (which would have been during that second 180-day period). So, what do these people do now? Forfit the marina fees? Forfit the airline ticket costs? Go to unsafe Tunisia? I'm sure you have a simple answer. And, after all, it is their own fault for not finding out about the changes in Schengen rules even though they all researched this last summer.

Judy
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Old 26-03-2014, 03:13   #70
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Re: Schengen rules have changed

[QUOTE=svBeBe;1502068
Go to unsafe Tunisia? Judy[/QUOTE]


Judy -- how do you know Tunisia is unsafe???? Be there??? or what?? I happen to winter over here and it sure is a heck of a lot safer than almost anyplace we have been in over 6years of cruising --- we have traveled inland over 4,000km and the people have been friendly and helpful -- it is simply a wonderful country and very safe
it is obvious from your posting that you have no idea what you are talking about
and YOU OWE THE PEOPLE OF TUNISIA AN APOLOGY --

and i am not a muslim nor tunisian -- i am a evangelical christian and an american
and we plan to winter over here again next year

next time before you post i suggest you check your facts
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Old 26-03-2014, 04:12   #71
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Re: Schengen rules have changed

...obtaining longer stay visa in individual EU country is a joke. We certainly could not do it for Italy.

Judy[/QUOTE]

Hi Judy,
was there any reason given for why you could not get Italian National (long stay) Visa? (we are just about to apply for one)
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Old 26-03-2014, 04:19   #72
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Re: Schengen rules have changed

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Originally Posted by beneteau-500 View Post
in 21 yrs of living full time in the eu on an aussie passport i have never had a prob and good see some one from my part of the world ( rosebud )
Thanks Beneteau-500.
Do you get long stay Visa's, or what/How have you managed 21 yrs full-time? Have you left in that time? (BTW we're even closer to Rosebud now, in Dromana, temporarily, until moving to our Nauticat in the Med)
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Old 26-03-2014, 05:59   #73
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Re: Schengen rules have changed

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I'm sure you have a simple answer. And, after all, it is their own fault for not finding out about the changes in Schengen rules even though they all researched this last summer.
Im impressed someone was taking note of the Bot judgement. Very few people knew about the "loophole"

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Old 26-03-2014, 06:03   #74
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Re: Schengen rules have changed

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Originally Posted by Katiusha View Post
Our experiences mirror Rob's. We're flying non-EU flag, we don't charter, but we were boarded by French four times in two months we were sailing there last year. They did politely remind us how many months were left of our VAT-free status and how many days until the end of our Schengen. We were anchoring in Cote d'Azur in the beginning of high season.

It would seem as if they're slowly ramping up on enforcement. But maybe we just attract this kind of attention (a couple with a baby?).
My in-depth experiences comes from 2 years ago and several summers before that , ( since then its been single voyage deliveries) It was spent in all the anchorages along the Cote D'Azure and italy and parts of spain. It was extremely rare to see on water French activity in boarding yachts, Occasionally the Maritime police would arrive , but they were mainly checking commercial vendors licenses. ( ski boats, ice cream ladies etc) . Douane now and again, and they were mainly focused on channel Island boats !


It would seemed to have changed in the meantime, wonder what caused the crack down


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Old 26-03-2014, 06:07   #75
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Re: Schengen rules have changed

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Yeah Dave I think the major difference is the flag you are flying doesn't attract as much attention.
I find it hard to believe the "authorities" pay too much attention to the colour of the rag out the back ! I mean from time to time I fly , various warranted club ensigns etc, which must confuse the heck out of them. Doesn't seem to get me boarded.


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