Schengen Agreement

[PamlicoTraveler]

I understand that the Schengen visa is a “visitor visa” that is issued to citizens of countries who are required to obtain a visa before entering Europe. I don't think that applies to a US Citizen. Is that correct?

And if you are a US Citizen does that mean you can stay longer than the 90 days in a 6 month period?

I am trying to figure how to plan a trip to the med. I don't want to try to see it all in 90 days. I understand there are some Eastern Med countries like Turkey to go to, but that seems like a lot of jumping around.

Why do European countries want to limit you to 90 days anyway? What is the logic of it if I am travelling and spending money?

[DeepFrz]

Why do European countries want to limit you to 90 days anyway? What is the logic of it if I am travelling and spending money?

Its a law, it doesn't have to be logical. Reason is the same reason that the US used to build the fence on the Mexican border.

[PamlicoTraveler]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Its a law, it doesn't have to be logical. Reason is the same reason that the US used to build the fence on the Mexican border.

Thanks, but that is not helpful

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by PamlicoTraveler

I understand that the Schengen visa is a “visitor visa” that is issued to citizens of countries who are required to obtain a visa before entering Europe. I don't think that applies to a US Citizen. Is that correct?

And if you are a US Citizen does that mean you can stay longer than the 90 days in a 6 month period?

I am trying to figure how to plan a trip to the med. I don't want to try to see it all in 90 days. I understand there are some Eastern Med countries like Turkey to go to, but that seems like a lot of jumping around.

Why do European countries want to limit you to 90 days anyway? What is the logic of it if I am travelling and spending money?

Well BUGA ME..... thats exactly what I thought in the US of A.....

[swagman]

Originally Posted by PamlicoTraveler

I understand that the Schengen visa is a “visitor visa” that is issued to citizens of countries who are required to obtain a visa before entering Europe. I don't think that applies to a US Citizen. Is that correct?

And if you are a US Citizen does that mean you can stay longer than the 90 days in a 6 month period?

I am trying to figure how to plan a trip to the med. I don't want to try to see it all in 90 days. I understand there are some Eastern Med countries like Turkey to go to, but that seems like a lot of jumping around.

Why do European countries want to limit you to 90 days anyway? What is the logic of it if I am travelling and spending money?

Think 'cruising' around rather than 'jumping'. The Meds not a big sea. You could sail north / south from say France down to Morocco in 3 days, or east / west from Spain to Turkey in 7 days. We've made pals with lots of Americans who were cruising the Med for much longer than 3 months, so it can't be too hard to manage.

I think the others have explained the 90 rationale.

Enjoy the trip when you do it.

John

[svBeBe]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Well BUGA ME..... thats exactly what I thought in the US of A.....

At least as a citizen of any of the European countries you are granted an initial 90-day-tourist visa when arriving in the USA and then can obtain a B-2 visa to extend that 90 days. Americans traveling to the EU countries which are signatories to the Schengen Treaty do not have any options of extending that initial 90-day tourist visa.

The whole idea is ridiculous. This agreement was not written with any consideration of sailors in mind, as sailors are just a tiny minority of tourists.

As for swagman's comment about Spain/Turkey east/west in 7 days -- west to east probably not a bad trip, although doing it in winter months will be a rough passage. But east to west for 1400 NM hard on the wind will not be a pleasant passage regardless of which month one ends up having to do it to meet that 90-days-in and 90-days-out requirement.

We had hoped to cruise the Med for several years. But with Turkey, Cyprus, Tunisia and Morocco soon to be the only "out" options this will prove difficult to do with much enjoyment. Face it; the EU countries do not want American sailors regardless of how much money might be spent in over-crowded marinas and tourism.

Judy

[Hillbillylad]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Well BUGA ME..... thats exactly what I thought in the US of A.....

Aye..ROFLMAO........It had to be a yank opening the thread. I don't think they have the slightest clue how garbage it is trying to get into the USA.
It is policy that everyone wanting to enter this third world country is guilty. Even their only Ally. I'm just waiting for the day Americans get treated like they treat everyone one else, that'll be a real eye opener for em.

[jannw]

Did you Read The Fine Manual ???

Meaning the wikipedia article?

Visa policy in the European Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

US passport holders do not require a visa for stays of up to 90 days in a 180 day period.

Longer than that and you are not a tourist ... you are a long stay visitor and you will need to apply for a suitable visa.

If you don't like it there is a simple solution ... go back home! Really! It isn't hard.

[goboatingnow]

PamlicoTraveller, just to avoid the politics.

The Schengen Visa was primarily introduced as a consequence of allowing EU citizens free movement with the EU, ie they would not be subject to any passport checks. This is the case within the Schengen area, EU citizens pass though without any checks whatsoever.

( The UK and Ireland remained outside, as The UK wasnt happy and Ireland was forced to follow the UK, otherwise it would loose its free travel area accross its land border with Northern Ireland).

Unfortunately, this meant that the rules for visitors to the EU had to tightened up , Using the American guidelines, a 90 day limit was set. This 90 days out of any 180 applies to visits across all Schengen countries. ( as an aside it was part of a row with the US that it applies its Visa Wavier selectively to countries within the EU and not to the Eu as a block, relations over this got quite hot)

It is very difficult to legally sail around the EU med countries and remain within the legal provisions of the Schengen rules.

In the US, in fact foreign sailors cant actually visit on the wavier scheme at all whereas at least US sailors can use the Schengen Visa Wavier scheme to visit for 90 days without further application.

You are right that at least in the US the B2 visa can be used, but B2 visas are almost impossible to get from the US for Visa wavier countries and involve an interview process, significant costs and hassle. It has been pointed out in the EU that a similar system is needed, but as yet nothing has happened, sailors being far down on the scale of things. The EU has a massive illegal immigration problem from North Africa as well.

Just on your point The Schengen Visa Wavier scheme does not mean US citizens are exempt from the Schengen rules, ( ie the 90 days) it means that you do not have to apply for the Visa in advance, the Visa is stamped into your passport on arrival into teh first Schengen country. 90 days is more then enough for the vast majority of tourists to the EU, who typically stay 2-3 weeks.

Now, for the current reality. If you travel around within the Schengen area by Air, you will alomost certainly be detected as an overstay. If you travel overland or by boat, the situation is somewhat fluid. You are required to check in at least once in every country arriving by private yacht. But to date Schengen overstays have been overlooked and many countries have treated it as if you have entered the Schengen area for the first time again and restamp the visa into the passport, Unfortunately you still fall foul of the 180 days, but days at seas can be claimed to be outside the Schengen area.

Like a lot of things in Europe, rules are a bit fuzzy. Traditionally overstays by white anglo saxon types ( ie those unlikely to attempt an illegal long term stay) have been overlooked or at worst you are admonished on leaving the Schengen area. Unfortunately attitudes are hardening and also the integrated computer system is nearly complete. So it remains to be seen what happens from now on and in the future.

There is no doubt that the EU needs an equivalent to a B2 visa, some countries have individual extensions, but nothing on a EU scale.

Dave

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by jannw

Did you Read The Fine Manual ???

Meaning the wikipedia article?

Visa policy in the European Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

US passport holders do not require a visa for stays of up to 90 days in a 180 day period.

Longer than that and you are not a tourist ... you are a long stay visitor and you will need to apply for a suitable visa.

If you don't like it there is a simple solution ... go back home! Really! It isn't hard.

The fundamental problem that in the EU , there isnt a standard long term stay visa, ie an extended tourist visa, like the B2. there are study visas , there are student visas, there are temporary work visas, all carry requirements and conditions that most cruisers will not meet.

So there is currently no solution to this issue, other then winging it.

Dave

[Roaring Girl]

Further to goboatingnow's explanation:

the point of the Schengen treaty was and is to facilitate (land-based) movement of goods and people by removing internal barriers between the various signatories. Those countries within Schengen keep records on where their residents live, eg by registering by with the local Town Hall. In the UK (if you are not liable for local property taxes) there is no such requirement and so people can disappear/move within the country much more easily.

The UK therefore did not want to sign up for Schengen, and as GBN says, this kept Eire out of it.

This system is not designed to facilitate water based long-term visitors but to facilitate short term tourism and (much more important) inter-country trade and labour movement. Note, however, that the 90 days applies to you, not your boat. So you might leave and decommission your boat and then come back.

In some (but not all) countries, bringing your boat in for more than 180 days is deemed an import and you become liable for various tax and regulatory regimes. This is patchily enforced. So if you (as a non-EU citizen) want to cruise the Med: take 3 months, lay the boat up, come back a bit later and do some more sea miles.

Our experience (as UK citizens, on UK flagged boat, both white anglo-saxon types) is that entry to countries is often completely lacking in formality (as in rock up and drop the anchor), but that you may and will be visited by Customs in various anchorages, and they will, if relevant, ask to see your visa material.

There are now additional notification requirements for arrival in the UK through the eborders system, if you are coming this far north.

[SteveT]

I would also point out that Turkey, Croatia and Montenegro - all of which are first class Mediterranean cruising destinations in their own right - are not within the EU and therefore not part of any Schengen agreements vis a vis lengths of stay. I believe Turkey in particular is welcoming although I have no experience myself of a prolonged stay there.

I won't comment on the absolutely horrendous procedures for entering the US as a non-American / Canadian!

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Roaring Girl

Further to goboatingnow's explanation:

the point of the Schengen treaty was and is to facilitate (land-based) movement of goods and people by removing internal barriers between the various signatories. Those countries within Schengen keep records on where their residents live, eg by registering by with the local Town Hall. In the UK (if you are not liable for local property taxes) there is no such requirement and so people can disappear/move within the country much more easily.

Thats not the reason, it was put forward, it was used as a scare tactic, nothing in schengen would have required local resident registration, Ireland already confirmed that fact. The main reason is the Uk simply didn't want to or accept EU border controls and beleived its own were(are) better, Events and eborder fiascos have suggested otherwise.

This system is not designed to facilitate water based long-term visitors but to facilitate short term tourism and (much more important) inter-country trade and labour movement. Note, however, that the 90 days applies to you, not your boat. So you might leave and decommission your boat and then come back.

In some (but not all) countries, bringing your boat in for more than 180 days is deemed an import and you become liable for various tax and regulatory regimes. This is patchily enforced. So if you (as a non-EU citizen) want to cruise the Med: take 3 months, lay the boat up, come back a bit later and do some more sea miles.

No NO, VAT law is harmonised across the EU, Countries have no say it its applicability other then what was agreed under various degrogations,

Temporary Import Relief is an EU wide program and allows boats to be brought into the EU for 18 months extendable to 24 months without being deemed imports. ( this does not apply to crew. only the physical boat). There is no 6 month restriction, this was the old local law, done away with now for over 10 years. ( but still appears on internet forums!!).

as to ", lay the boat up, come back a bit later and do some more sea miles." yes once they use up the 90days they cannot come back for another 3 months.!! .

Note that Croatia, Turkey and much of the Balkans are not in Schengen and could be visited to use up the remaining balance of 180 days.

Our experience (as UK citizens, on UK flagged boat, both white anglo-saxon types) is that entry to countries is often completely lacking in formality (as in rock up and drop the anchor), but that you may and will be visited by Customs in various anchorages, and they will, if relevant, ask to see your visa material.

There are now additional notification requirements for arrival in the UK through the eborders system, if you are coming this far north.

There is no additional requirements for yachtsmen or women arriving in the UK under any current borders scheme. As to eborders I suspect its life is seriously threatened. It would be better for the Uk to sign up to Schengen.

As to your comments, re rock up and little happens, Yes for EU citizens arriving by yacht is almost completely formality free. for my first arrival I still bring my passports to the marina office as they like to use it as proof of whos who.

Note that for non EU citizens, they ARE required to alert immigration and request check-in and technically check-out. They cant just hang around waiting to be detected.

[nigel1]

I'm no expert on the Schengen Visa system, but I know that its worthwhile to make sure you get stamped out of a country when you leave on your boat, even if planning on returning, as time at sea sort of works like a credit on the time allowed. (I think)

[beneteau-500]

you can get your visa extended in a schengen area I have never had any probs into doing so 2009 spent 154 days 2010/167 days 2011/114 days correctly you must apply at the visiting countries embassy of your home country ie as a aussie i should apply at the Greek embassy in Melbourne Australia but as i live part time in uk i go to the local police and apply 14 days before my current visa finishes i have never had a prob doing so .

and i now believe technically the schengen treaty is invalid due to the Italians letting in Nth Africans and handing them free travel docs and if i am correct France, Belgium , and one other European country has closed there borders because of the Italians