Schengen Agreement

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

I spent 12 years in Europe (until 3 years ago), with annual trips home by air. I didn't have any problems.

You will find it very difficult to obey every detail of the immigration laws, and will be very constrained in your travel if you do.

OTOH if you completely ignore the laws there is a good chance you will get caught, and possibly fined and deported.

The answer is to learn where the enforcement is a problem, and where it isn't, and where there are legal options. The situation is changing, and becoming more difficult both due to stricter enforcement and more nations joining the EU. But there is still room to maneuver, and the best way to learn is to ask those currently in the marinas in the Med for their experiences.

My information is dated, but possibly useful. In addition to the African and Mid-Eastern states, ex-Yugoslavia (save Slovenia), and Turkey, there is always Gibraltar. That provides plenty of interesting and legal places to winter. I wintered in Italy 3 winters with no problem; I was asked once by the CG but they shrugged it off. On another occasion a kiwi was silly enough to go to immigration after overstaying and asked for a residency permit; that brought some unwanted attention but in the end nothing happened (other than a distinct loss in popularity for him in the marina). I spent 4 years in Turkey, with a day trip to Greece every three months to renew the visa (and buy cheaper alcohol). I also spent a winter in Gibraltar. So I don't see any problem with wintering as long as a little research is done. In practice the biggest problem for wintering is Greece but even that is possible.

Sailing through the Mediterranean EU in the summer shouldn't be a problem either, particularly if a trip to Croatia/Montenegro is included. The major concern there is Greece (again), which has been very strict for a very long time: they like their fines. So if eastbound be certain to have the passports stamped when returning to the EU and then check out of Greece within 90 days without fail. Missing the Dalmatian Coast would be a crime anyway. And Turkey is a real treat so don't be reluctant to move along.

Good luck

This advice seems to pre-date the Schengen Visa and hence I suspect is very out of date. Overstay fines have been recently levied in Italy and Germany as well.

Its very foolish to merely say your very caught and hence others will not be as well. Nor is it a good idea to encourage immigration illegality.

Dave

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by savoir

No matter what currency Greece stays on they aren't going to be paying off anything so they shouldn't kid themselves on that one. At least with Drachma the tourist industry will be pumping. Think how peaceful home would be if the British bargain hunters all left for a while on a cheap holiday.

jeepers this is thread drift

[Mexdon]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

If you have a long stay visa then the Schengen 90 day clock stops everytime you return to that country. So taking the French case you can visit other Schengen countries for a total of 90 days in 180. ( ie one 90 day trip or multiple smaller trips

When you consume the 90 days, you will have to return to France for the remaining 90 days. Essentially France becomes your home country.

Dave

Dave, can you post a link where that is explained? I have looked but all I can find is you need to enter and leave from your long stay visa country as the others look at you as an overstay if you enter their country from where you live on the long stay visa. I am thinking of basing in Malta to enjoy close cruising to the best areas.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Mexdon

Dave, can you post a link where that is explained? I have looked but all I can find is you need to enter and leave from your long stay visa country as the others look at you as an overstay if you enter their country from where you live on the long stay visa. I am thinking of basing in Malta to enjoy close cruising to the best areas.

Here is the EU page ( in french, but google does a reasonable translation job)

Libre circulation avec un visa de long séjour

[Mexdon]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Here is the EU page ( in french, but google does a reasonable translation job)

Libre circulation avec un visa de long séjour

Thanks, this is a great find.

[Mexdon]

The page is available in four languages, English, French, German and Spanish just by clicking on the language selector in the up right corner.

[donradcliffe]

My information is a bit dated, as I was in the Med in the 2004-2007 time frame, but I spent far longer than 90 days in the Schengen area.

When I came into Venice from Croatia, it took me over 6 hours to find someone who would check me in. I finally got a frontier policeman at the ferry terminal to do it, and he refused to stamp our passports. I wanted some piece of paper which showed that I had checked in, so he stamped a crew list for me.

Eight months later, we were traveling on a train from Germany to the Czech Republic, the German border guard looked at our passports and said "when did you come to Europe?" I told him that it was 2 months ago, and he was happy with that. We also flew from Italy to England, with no issues, and took the chunnel back to France, where they also didn't stamp our passports. When we flew home from the Canaries 7 months later, there was no problem at the airport.

Back then, the only countries that we were aware of that were enforcing the 90 day limit were Greece, Portugal, and Germany.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

My information is a bit dated, as I was in the Med in the 2004-2007 time frame, but I spent far longer than 90 days in the Schengen area.

When I came into Venice from Croatia, it took me over 6 hours to find someone who would check me in. I finally got a frontier policeman at the ferry terminal to do it, and he refused to stamp our passports. I wanted some piece of paper which showed that I had checked in, so he stamped a crew list for me.

Eight months later, we were traveling on a train from Germany to the Czech Republic, the German border guard looked at our passports and said "when did you come to Europe?" I told him that it was 2 months ago, and he was happy with that. We also flew from Italy to England, with no issues, and took the chunnel back to France, where they also didn't stamp our passports. When we flew home from the Canaries 7 months later, there was no problem at the airport.

Back then, the only countries that we were aware of that were enforcing the 90 day limit were Greece, Portugal, and Germany.

The EU is considerably more laid back as long as your not African or other places to the east. Especially when arriving by pleasure yacht.

But the fact is that every year people get fined and have their passport stamped as an illegal immigrant. Merely because you can possibly get away with it , should you ?? More importantly is it of any value to other potential travellers.

Dave

[jacobite]

Some observations and a question -

I have been cruising the Med for the last 30 years on a UK passport, so obviously no problems. The last 6 years have, however, been with my South African wife who has no UK passport so we are into Schengen visa problems like a lot of you. We try to be legal where we can but do take our risks with forthought and awareness - I have spent a lot of my life in 3rd world countries with serious visa requirements.

Spain were very friendly with the Embassy in SA saying that the days spent on a boat did not count as part of the 90 days - personally I think this had no legal standing but did show an attitude. We never had problems, including flying out many times. Italy was a pain - we had no reason to be illegal but in 2 years and many attempts we simply were not able to clear my wife in. We were refused each time. This included many ports in Sadinia, Sicily and the mainland, even big ones. There was never a problem or question in many times through the airports. Last month she flew in to Rome and received no stamp in her South African passport with an Italian Schengen visa. We left Sibari legally with no exit stamps. Entered Albania very easily even though she had no Albanian visa - will do a separate message on Albania. Entering Greece we obtained our transit log as a non EU boat (Guernsey registration) which allows 6 months usage in 12 months. The Greek Port Authorities issued me with a crew list for 3 (2xUK + 1xSA) and I went to the Immigration police to get an entrance stamp in the SA passport. Much confusion - as crew she only needed a stamp when she was about to leave to the airport as they could only give a 2 day temporary visa so she could proceed to Athens to fly out. No need for her to go direct to SA. When I pointed out she had a valid Scengen visa the immigration officer told me that then I had to put her as a passenger on the crew list and he would give an entrance stamp so she would have no problems at the airport. Back to Port Authorities and a new crew list was issued. My Greek from days gone bye was severely challenged in all of this but it was all handled in a pleasant way. The immigation policeman was perfectly happy for her to be there as part of the crew when she sailed in had we wished to keep cruising, but as we were stopping for the winter there was no need. My wife left before me and her passport was scutinised at Athens airport. I am told by many that Greece is presently the only place aggressively counting the days.

Now my question - as she is the wife of a UK passport holder (but not a UK resident) does she have a right to be with me when we are in a Schengen country together?? I realise that this might not apply if I leave the country ahead of her. I have tried to find the answer on line but cannot find clarity.

Lovely to be back in the Greek isles after 25 years, but, boy,the paperwork hasn't got any simpler.

A final observation - entry to the US is a doddle compared to some of the places I go to!!

[goboatingnow]

Now my question - as she is the wife of a UK passport holder (but not a UK resident) does she have a right to be with me when we are in a Schengen country together?? I realise that this might not apply if I leave the country ahead of her. I have tried to find the answer on line but cannot find clarity.

No unfortunately, on a strict interpretation, a Schengen visa is just a 90 day tourist visa, it applies individually. Long term stay visas based on national laws may or may not have provision for spouses.

Dave

[simonmd]

I'd aggree with the above, in imigration terms, who she is married to is irellavent. It's her own passport that dictates how she is processed.

The only way to simplify things would be to apply for duel nationality as she is your wife, then she'd also hold a UK passport and most of the red tape would dissapear.

[jacobite]

Dave & Simon,

Thanks for the imput. Unfortunately, I left the UK in 1973 because I do not want to be resident there. Hence we are not able to get a UK passport for my wife so I guess we will just be legal where we can. Cheers.

[touchngo]

Jacobite; Dave & Simon are not strictly correct. You as a UK citizen are entitled to reside and move freely within Europe, and as your dependent, your wife may travel and reside freely with you too. The rider to this is that she would need to obtain a residence visa, not a schengen visa, and you would need to go through this process with the immigration officials in whichever country you chose to "reside" in.

My wife is a UK citizen, and I hold an NZ passport, and this is the advice we have been given by the UK Foreign Office.

Additionally, this is laid out in EU legislation as per here;
EUR-Lex - 32004L0038 - EN
and here;
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...35:0048:EN:PDF

Separately I have learnt in this thread that as an NZ Passport holder, I am able to obtain 90 day visa's to most of the EU countries that we intend to visit, so we won't bother going down the residency visa route.

This doesn't invalidate the above's usefulness for you though (other than it is a very cumbersome route to go when you are not intending on staying in a country for long).

Hope this helps.

PT.

[goboatingnow]

Eh TouuchnGo, Thats exactly what I said, Its a function of National Visas not the Schengen visa, that visa has no provision for spouses.

Dave

[touchngo]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Eh TouuchnGo, Thats exactly what I said, Its a function of National Visas not the Schengen visa, that visa has no provision for spouses.

Dave

My apologies. Obviously I misread your post. The links that I posted, should clarify the query that Jacobite had though.

PT.