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Old 13-06-2018, 09:32   #1
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Scams in Greece

New scam in Greece:

On entering a harbour some random guy 'helps you in' i.e. takes your lines. Later you are presented with a bill for at least euro10 or more commonly 1euro per boat metre.

I haven't asked for help and don't need it but we yachties often volunteer and help each other. I was charged euro 12 for the guy taking two lines. The receipt he offered was a joke - something from a stationers. I demanded a tax receipt (the rule in Greece is now no tax receipt = no pay). He became very abusive and aggressive. Later the port authority came along with an itemised tax receipt which I paid. But I am sure they were involved because they take a cut.

In SIMI near Rhodes the mooring fee of 7.50 was given to me along with a bill for 10 euro by the same official.

You can demand a tax receipt (one with the VAT itemised) before paying - but be prepared for hassle and even abuse. OR you can refuse any assistance and deal with your own lines.

I am complaining to the Ministry for Tourism and urge any other victims to do the same.

This is such a shame as there is a cameraderie amongst yachties taking each others lines and generally helping each other. Now if a yachtie tries to help he/she is sworn at by these guys who see their scam being spoiled. They often wear a tee shirt with 'Mooring Man' - SIMI, or 'Mooring Services' - Kalymnos. Khalki is also a problem and there may be others.

Best to take your own lines.

Don't let this scam spoil your trip.
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Old 13-06-2018, 09:47   #2
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Re: Scams in Greece

I have had a few people help me with my lines, so far all have been friendly. Either boat owners or tavern owners who have taken upon themselves to manage the key. I am aware of this scam though.

In Greece all of the business have signs up saying that you are no obliged to pay unless you have an receipt/invoice.

Under UK contract law, action can indeed constitute acceptance, and induce you into a contract, but there needs to be a valid offer on the table and a willingness by both parties to be bound.

I don't know about Greek law, but unless the person identified themselves as an employe of the quay, port police, marina etc.. and informed me of a fee for help before hand, and presented a bill, I would refuse the pay and happily wait whilst the police arrive.

But then I'm on a liveaboard so have the time. Someone on holiday might not. Anyone on a charter should probably inform their charter company.
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Old 14-06-2018, 03:54   #3
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Re: Scams in Greece

where in Greece did this happen?
I've never had this happen in the Aegean part (Cyclades/Dodecanese). although there are some harbours where they have "professional" linehandlers, but usually you can recognise them by their day glow vests and they charge about 2 or 3 EU.
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Old 14-06-2018, 16:03   #4
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Re: Scams in Greece

Heh ,
I am from Greece and have been familiar with this kind of attitude, specially with my boat when I dock side way(you are allowed to dock as you want in public ports ) , the solution is simple ,
You finish the manauver , you smile and ask kindly where the port office is , you walk 5 minutes to the port office and pay your fair .
If they complain about you asking for the port office just say that you want to stamp your Dekpa , if they are aggressive just ignore and walk to the office .
If they are too aggressive just call the police.
P.S always with a smile

P.S the behaviour you may consider aggressive it might be normal for Greeks, be aware we usually talk loud and on a way that seems aggressive but that's just accent.
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Old 14-06-2018, 21:10   #5
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Re: Scams in Greece

Yesterday we arrived to Poros harbour. A Greek guy on the quay helped with the lines.
When I have tried to give him a tip - he flatly refused...
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Old 16-06-2018, 07:51   #6
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Re: Scams in Greece

Mostly, I wouldn't let 10 euro spoil my trip. You paid 17 euro in total for a night in one of the busiest village harbors by size in all of the Aegean. It's a stunning view, great location, and the only harbor on the island.

It always makes me laugh when cruisers complain about being charged in Greece. Really, go somewhere else - and do so quickly.
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Old 16-06-2018, 08:03   #7
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Re: Scams in Greece

Thanks for the replies - good to know I am not alone.

This has happened recently in the Dodecanese (where I presently am).
Khalki (wanted Euro10)
Symi (also 10)
Kalymnos (12)

I live in Greece and know the difference between loudness and offensiveness. I also know the difference between 'malakas' as a term of familiarity and as an offensive curse.

I too have sailed in Saronics and Cyclades without problems. This year in Dodecanese these con-artists have sprung up. It is only a matter of time before it spreads.

Taking each other's lines is a long established courtesy but I have seen people try to do this and been sworn at by these guys for spoiling their scam.

Sorry if 10 or 12 euro seems trivial to some but I now enter ports with trepidation about the upcoming argument rather than pleasure of arrival.

And, yes let's not these con-artists spoil such great cruising areas.
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Old 16-06-2018, 13:00   #8
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Re: Scams in Greece

Here's one I encountered today. A Supermarket gives you a crappy looking gas bottle when you go in for an exchange (you have no choice because they are all crappy looking especially on the smaller islands), but then when once you use it and go back for a refill (a few weeks later) they refuse to accept it, complaining that it's too rusted or too worn out. Really!
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Old 16-06-2018, 22:34   #9
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Re: Scams in Greece

Hello,

I do not like scam and I give assistance to any yatch that comes along near mine. I think any sailor does that. May be there are exceptions in some ports. May be Simi is one of these ports. I am on anchor at Pedi and went yesterday to Simi port by the mini bus. I did like the village but not the port. I would say that 80% of the boats moored there were big motor yatchs and about 20% were sailing yatchs. I saw 2 or 3 "Simi Mooring" men assisting the docking. A port police women was around. I do not about the cost of the mooring service.

Last week I was in Kalimnos. I knew about the mooring man as I had read a report in noonsite. His name is Yanis. He made me to reset the anchor in another location as he wanted me to moor just on the side of another boat. He gave me a receipt for 9 euros. Since the official price for my 12 meter boat is about 6.5 euros, I may assume that I was charged 2,5 euros for the assistance. If I am right I found it reasonable. He not only passes the lines on the rings on the quay but he acts as an harboumaster putting order on the moorings so that space for all is maximised (as it occurred in my case) and gives all the information that we ask.

Regards Luis
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Old 19-06-2018, 04:22   #10
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Re: Scams in Greece

Vladis

Thanks for sharing your experience. I suggest the 'Mooring Man' was entirely unofficial - self appointed. The entire fee you gave him will have been into his pocket.

You can check if the receipt is officlal - there should be perforations down the left side and the amount of VAT should be clearly identified.
The receipts these guys typically give out are standard stationery-shop blocks on which they put a rubber stamp. These are illegal and will not be declared for tax.

Everywhere in Greece now you will see signs saying 'no receipt - no payment required'. This is an attempt to make Greece a responsible country paying it's way. You are entitled to ask for a tax receipt. The first response will be to say this is a tax receipt. If you then press for an 'official receipt' as described above then be prepared for abuse and offensive behaviour. But please hold your ground. These guys are stealing, avoiding tax and completely unofficial.

They also inhibit other sailors from helping each other.
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Old 19-06-2018, 05:00   #11
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Re: Scams in Greece

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladis View Post
Hello,

I do not like scam and I give assistance to any yatch that comes along near mine. I think any sailor does that. May be there are exceptions in some ports. May be Simi is one of these ports. I am on anchor at Pedi and went yesterday to Simi port by the mini bus. I did like the village but not the port. I would say that 80% of the boats moored there were big motor yatchs and about 20% were sailing yatchs. I saw 2 or 3 "Simi Mooring" men assisting the docking. A port police women was around. I do not about the cost of the mooring service.

Last week I was in Kalimnos. I knew about the mooring man as I had read a report in noonsite. His name is Yanis. He made me to reset the anchor in another location as he wanted me to moor just on the side of another boat. He gave me a receipt for 9 euros. Since the official price for my 12 meter boat is about 6.5 euros, I may assume that I was charged 2,5 euros for the assistance. If I am right I found it reasonable. He not only passes the lines on the rings on the quay but he acts as an harboumaster putting order on the moorings so that space for all is maximised (as it occurred in my case) and gives all the information that we ask.

Regards Luis
Yannis is the harbourmaster for that part of the harbour.
How do you figure that 6.5EU is the official rate for 12m monohuls in municipal harbours in Greece?
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Old 19-06-2018, 05:55   #12
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Re: Scams in Greece

Just tell the guy on the dock to piss off.
They have these sort of money grubbers in lots of poorer countries where employment is hard to come by. When I was sailing around in the Dominican Republic every time you stop and anchor in some bay a man dressed in half assed fatigues will come out in a dilapidated fishing boat and bang on the boat. They ask for your papers and money, usually $20. These guys work for the "Navy" and are checking marine traffic. I never paid once, usually I would have the dog on deck barking and chasing their little boat around as they tried to grab the rail. I just pretended I did not speak Spanish and waved them off. They always come armed with an AK 47 and it can be a little hairy but just rip off artists. I've seen this type of bs lots of places.
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Old 19-06-2018, 06:36   #13
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Re: Scams in Greece

We are used to the brotherhood of the sea, whereby we offer help without thinking; but in today's world, it's prudent to always agree upon the terms of assistance- and not just with boat boys. It can mean the difference between a towing bill, and a salvage claim against your vessel.
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Old 19-06-2018, 06:55   #14
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Re: Scams in Greece

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladis View Post
Hello,

I do not like scam and I give assistance to any yatch that comes along near mine. I think any sailor does that. May be there are exceptions in some ports. May be Simi is one of these ports. I am on anchor at Pedi and went yesterday to Simi port by the mini bus. I did like the village but not the port. I would say that 80% of the boats moored there were big motor yatchs and about 20% were sailing yatchs. I saw 2 or 3 "Simi Mooring" men assisting the docking. A port police women was around. I do not about the cost of the mooring service.

Last week I was in Kalimnos. I knew about the mooring man as I had read a report in noonsite. His name is Yanis. He made me to reset the anchor in another location as he wanted me to moor just on the side of another boat. He gave me a receipt for 9 euros. Since the official price for my 12 meter boat is about 6.5 euros, I may assume that I was charged 2,5 euros for the assistance. If I am right I found it reasonable. He not only passes the lines on the rings on the quay but he acts as an harboumaster putting order on the moorings so that space for all is maximised (as it occurred in my case) and gives all the information that we ask.

Regards Luis
I understand your pain.

I hope the Greece government looks very good to the pricing and yacht tax system in Croatia and starts charging accordingly. This will create tax income and jobs for a country still suffering from the financial crises that hurt the working class dramatically. Shame on everyone that screams about the few euros they pay for mooring their yacht in Greece.
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Old 19-06-2018, 07:28   #15
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Re: Scams in Greece

Quote:
Originally Posted by De.windhoos View Post
where in Greece did this happen?
I've never had this happen in the Aegean part (Cyclades/Dodecanese). although there are some harbours where they have "professional" linehandlers, but usually you can recognise them by their day glow vests and they charge about 2 or 3 EU.

Happened to me last year in Kalymnos. In my case the official fee for an overnight stay was 5 EUR (41 ft boat), paid to the harbour master (with a proper VAT receipt). Before he arrived, two guys requested another 5 EUR (total) for line handling.
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