Sailing qualifications

[Strait Shooter]

Originally Posted by rivonia

To put it simply for you;

You with all your years of experienc should just go and sit the following SIMPLE exams.
1. Radio operaters licence for VHF
2. Basic skippers licence.

Then you will have no worries, will you

Actually, it sounds like he still may "have worries", if there is no rhyme or reason for the documents being asked for, as has been made clear from the above experiences.

[rivonia]

We were asked for Insurance and VHF radio licence as well as Skippers certificate in many ports on our routes between North Cyprus and The west coast of Scotland.

You takes you pick-Risk or No risk?

[skipmac]

Hi Judy,

Do you have an actual USCG captain's license, OUPV or similar? When you were asked for your license or certificate of competency did you feel like you needed something that official or could you have satisfied them with any fancy looking piece of paper like a certificate from a Power Squadron safety course if it was on a letterhead with a couple of stamps and a signature from a person with a title next to it?

Would really hate to have to go through the extra cost and red tape for the captains license; test, medical, TWIC etc.

A general question. At least in western EU it doesn't sound like one needs to show a license but what about on the canals and rivers. I read that the CEVNI certification on an ICC is required on the canals but does anyone really care or ever ask? I also read that a VHF with ATIS is required. Same question here, does anyone really care? Is it practically necessary or useful to have ATIS?

[Palarran]

Many of you probably know this issue has been discussed over the years many times. A forum google search of "certificate of competency" will turn up the threads. From memory the two main countries who required a certificate were Portugal and Croatia. With Croatia specifically if you go to the countries cruising website it lists the required certificate and for Americans it's ASA and ASSA. See here

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Many of you probably know this issue has been discussed over the years many times. A forum google search of "certificate of competency" will turn up the threads. From memory the two main countries who required a certificate were Portugal and Croatia. With Croatia specifically if you go to the countries cruising website it lists the required certificate and for Americans it's ASA and ASSA. See here

Is there anything of significance that hasn't been discussed at length on CF?

What I did find interesting (and new) in this latest discussion are the reports of recent experiences on this issue in countries around the Med.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Is there anything of significance that hasn't been discussed at length on CF?

Boatman's selection criteria for crew

What I did find interesting (and new) in this latest discussion are the reports of recent experiences on this issue in countries around the Med.

I agree. My ASA cert is in my boat papers bag and I've tried to get some of the port authorities to even look at it because it was a pain to get but none so far have been interested. Most of these authorities see my Med Mooring style so you'd think it would be the first question out of their mouths.

[rivonia]

The port police have changed recently in the GREEK Islands. In as much they are all trying to make you pay more. They will certainly ask to see ALL your papers! This only happens the first port that you check in as after that it is not nescessary for a year. Also all have to be produced in Gibralter/Malta/Sicily and Cyprus just to mention a few. You need a CEVNI and a special VHC licence for the european rivers and Canals.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Many of you probably know this issue has been discussed over the years many times. A forum google search of "certificate of competency" will turn up the threads. From memory the two main countries who required a certificate were Portugal and Croatia. With Croatia specifically if you go to the countries cruising website it lists the required certificate and for Americans it's ASA and ASSA. See here

The document at that link says: "for operating Croatian flag boats and yachts".

"Nothing there about the OP's question:
What do US sailors do when they arrive in Europe or the Azores from America on their own boats"

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by StuM

The document at that link says: "for operating Croatian flag boats and yachts".

"Nothing there about the OP's question:
What do US sailors do when they arrive in Europe or the Azores from America on their own boats"

Maybe your right Stu. On the Croatian Maritime website they have this:

Also, in past threads this form was referenced often so I took it that Croatian flagged boats and "all other" yachts needed it. Now they didn't ask for a certificate so maybe no one needs one. I'm more of a better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it guy so therefore got one. I'd hate to have all my friends showing up in Dubrovnik and not be able to take them anywhere without hiring a captain.

Thanks for setting the record straight.

[Kenomac]

No requirements for our US flagged boat so far in Italy, Spain or the UK. But the local officials do spend lots of time checking the locals for the proper paperwork. One time, my wife just watched as a local Italian coast guard RIB slowly circled our boat checking us out at an anchorage, then they moved on to the Italian flagged boat next door and spent an hour giving them the third degree.

Sometimes, I think that the locals just don't feel like dealing with the language barrier when everything appears to be in order.

An Italian friend told me to just wait until we get to Croatia where I can take the proper competency test for around 200 euros. Here in the US it costs around $1700, if I can even find a place to take it. So there's no hurry.

[svBeBe]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Hi Judy,

Do you have an actual USCG captain's license, OUPV or similar? When you were asked for your license or certificate of competency did you feel like you needed something that official or could you have satisfied them with any fancy looking piece of paper like a certificate from a Power Squadron safety course if it was on a letterhead with a couple of stamps and a signature from a person with a title next to it?

Would really hate to have to go through the extra cost and red tape for the captains license; test, medical, TWIC etc.

A general question. At least in western EU it doesn't sound like one needs to show a license but what about on the canals and rivers. I read that the CEVNI certification on an ICC is required on the canals but does anyone really care or ever ask? I also read that a VHF with ATIS is required. Same question here, does anyone really care? Is it practically necessary or useful to have ATIS?

Bill and I each have the OUPV captain's license, technically called a Merchant Mariner Credential issued by the USCG. We obtained these licenses when we first started cruising for 2 reasons. 1) To get discount on insurance. 2) Because I had read of another sailor encountering problems clearing into Greece and not having any type license or certification of competency. My license looks like a red passport and has the biometric TWIC card inserted inside the rear cover flap. The little red passport-looking booklet replaced the old paper licenses several years ago. IIRC, it cost us about $400 each to renew the licenses last time in late 2010, including medical exams and TWIC renewal. To me, that will be a total waste of money once we are out of the Med since no country (as yet) requires licensing in the Caribbean or Central America and that will be our cruising grounds until it is time to retire from boat life.

I *think* just about any type of certification would suffice in most countries over here in the Med except for Croatia. Croatia is very specific about what is acceptable as proof of competency.

I know nothing about canals or rivers; we have no interest in doing those and I have never researched it. No idea about enforcement of the AITS in EU canals or rivers.

Judy

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Italy does not require legally any proof of competency as long as the registered flag country doesn't require it , Portugal is the same, however I have heard that officials ask for it , I've never seen any infraction if you haven't it

Croatia , Greece , turkey I know off require competency certs even if your flag country doesn't. Croatia is the only one that has specific documented requirements. The others have quite lenient views on what constitutes such a cert.

Why anyone these days doesn't have " something " is a bit beyond me.

Almost all countries require the operator of a VHF radio to be certified to use the radio in national waters ( only right and proper ) most countries do not check it however

( you ate also required technical to have a ships station license )

Dave

Why speculate and risk a hassle? It's not hard or expensive to put together a solid set of papers. You need:

1. ICC. Issued in all the treaty states, and the UK will issue to US, Canadian, and Antipodean sailors. It is a snap to get. You just get a brief assessment and they issue the paper.

2. Radiotelephone operator's license. For Yanks, this is done in two minutes online with no test.

3. Ship station's license. In the U.S. and U.K., it's done in two minutes online, and they mail it to you. FCC in the States and Ofcom in the UK. I expect it's similar in other countries.

4. Insurance.

5. And obviously, proper registration documents for the vessel.


Why faff around with it? It's dead simple. Why give some corrupt barsteward in Albania the chance to create problems for you?

In the UK, there is no requirement to register small pleasure vessels, no requirements for insurance, no requirement for any qualification, no taxes -- so UK sailors are dead spoiled. If they don't have a VHF, they are not required to have a single scrap of paper. It's amazing to see the hundreds of pages of acrimonious debate on YBW on whether this right to sail without any single scrap of paper should be asserted or not asserted in more bureaucratic France. When all the French want to see is a SSR (small ship registry) paper -- which like our Yank VHF license is gotten online in two minutes -- purely invented to give UK sailors a scrap of paper to wave under the nose of furrin bureaucrats. It doesn't prove anything, and is not actually even evidence, much less proof, of ownership . Yet some UK sailors refuse to do even this, resenting the demand for paper.

We should be more practical! Just get the ICC, and forget about it. Takes less time than researching where you might or might not have problems without it.

[rivonia]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Why speculate and risk a hassle? It's not hard or expensive to put together a solid set of papers. You need:

1. ICC. Issued in all the treaty states, and the UK will issue to US, Canadian, and Antipodean sailors. It is a snap to get. You just get a brief assessment and they issue the paper.

2. Radiotelephone operator's license. For Yanks, this is done in two minutes online with no test.

3. Ship station's license. In the U.S. and U.K., it's done in two minutes online, and they mail it to you. FCC in the States and Ofcom in the UK. I expect it's similar in other countries.

4. Insurance.

5. And obviously, proper registration documents for the vessel.


Why faff around with it? It's dead simple. Why give some corrupt barsteward in Albania the chance to create problems for you?

In the UK, there is no requirement to register small pleasure vessels, no requirements for insurance, no requirement for any qualification, no taxes -- so UK sailors are dead spoiled. If they don't have a VHF, they are not required to have a single scrap of paper. It's amazing to see the hundreds of pages of acrimonious debate on YBW on whether this right to sail without any single scrap of paper should be asserted or not asserted in more bureaucratic France. When all the French want to see is a SSR (small ship registry) paper -- which like our Yank VHF license is gotten online in two minutes -- purely invented to give UK sailors a scrap of paper to wave under the nose of furrin bureaucrats. It doesn't prove anything, and is not actually even evidence, much less proof, of ownership . Yet some UK sailors refuse to do even this, resenting the demand for paper.

We should be more practical! Just get the ICC, and forget about it. Takes less time than researching where you might or might not have problems without it.

Very well put. Couldn't have said it any better

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Why speculate and risk a hassle? It's not hard or expensive to put together a solid set of papers. You need:

1. ICC. Issued in all the treaty states, and the UK will issue to US, Canadian, and Antipodean sailors. It is a snap to get. You just get a brief assessment and they issue the paper.

2. Radiotelephone operator's license. For Yanks, this is done in two minutes online with no test.

3. Ship station's license. In the U.S. and U.K., it's done in two minutes online, and they mail it to you. FCC in the States and Ofcom in the UK. I expect it's similar in other countries.

4. Insurance.

5. And obviously, proper registration documents for the vessel.


Why faff around with it? It's dead simple. Why give some corrupt barsteward in Albania the chance to create problems for you?

In the UK, there is no requirement to register small pleasure vessels, no requirements for insurance, no requirement for any qualification, no taxes -- so UK sailors are dead spoiled. If they don't have a VHF, they are not required to have a single scrap of paper. It's amazing to see the hundreds of pages of acrimonious debate on YBW on whether this right to sail without any single scrap of paper should be asserted or not asserted in more bureaucratic France. When all the French want to see is a SSR (small ship registry) paper -- which like our Yank VHF license is gotten online in two minutes -- purely invented to give UK sailors a scrap of paper to wave under the nose of furrin bureaucrats. It doesn't prove anything, and is not actually even evidence, much less proof, of ownership . Yet some UK sailors refuse to do even this, resenting the demand for paper.

We should be more practical! Just get the ICC, and forget about it. Takes less time than researching where you might or might not have problems without it.

I couldn't say it any better. This isn't a problem - unless you make it one. Personally I have virtually every type of license that can possibly be issued by Denmark, but getting a VHF certificate (anyone can pass one of these with a modicum of self-study) shouldn't be an issue. Neither should an ICC.

[svBeBe]

Maybe the reason some sailors do not want to obtain all the paperwork is the cost? The Radio Station Authorization issued by the FCC for American sailors costs $150, IIRC. Then the Restricted Operator license costs another $300 or so. Each good for 10 years and neither required within USA waters. I have no idea what the cost of the ICC issued by the Brits costs. Frankly, had no idea that they would issue one to Americans as we are not citizens of any EU country. That seems very strange. For a country to issue certification or licensing to a person who is not a citizen or even a resident of that country. Does the American need to travel to England in order to obtain this ICC? Very strange.

Judy