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Old 27-08-2016, 07:39   #31
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

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Originally Posted by kas_1611 View Post
SNIP

You can't buy a million pound Ferrari and drive it off the forecourt without the licence so why do we accept this kind of idiocy on the sea?


SNIP
As I pointed out earlier in large cities with large immigrant populations like Miami and Los Angles there are plenty of folks who drive with no license; or insurance. Not claiming I have not seen 40-50 (or larger) foot MV speeding along at unsafe speeds especially on holidays. But if LEOs can't control what is happening on land I don't see tax payers thinking it is a good idea to try and extend that control on the water.

If the truth be known the worst offenders I see are on jet skis; they seem to be everywhere and have no idea how dangerous their actions are. As for the big boats a lot of the owners have insurance which at least means they have been told if you have some type of education certificate and at least lie about your experience you will have cheaper insurance rates. On the other hand lots of the junk boats have owners who can not afford insurance and often their boats are unsafe due to being poorly maintained.

I have been sailing since getting on my Dad's boat in the 1950s. He was a medical doctor and went out on his boat to get away from telephones and those calling him for emergencies. I grew up with the idea of going out on a boat to get away from it all. If you are away from it all it really does not matter if you are safely operating your boat since you will only hurt your self. As someone posted earlier every time we go out we are given a test and failing can mean loss of the boat or in extreme cases loss of life as well. Seems like a self correcting problem.
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Old 27-08-2016, 07:53   #32
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

Unfortunately a £100 Mini can do just as much damage as a million pound Ferrari. Whilst I agree insurance should be necessary, I've climbed some of the world's highest mountains solo without formal training, only have day skipper yet solo ed the Atlantic 3 times and will soon be in New Zealand. Many liveaboards I've met who have just got up and gone.

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Old 27-08-2016, 08:07   #33
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

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If you are away from it all it really does not matter if you are safely operating your boat since you will only hurt your self. As someone posted earlier every time we go out we are given a test and failing can mean loss of the boat or in extreme cases loss of life as well. Seems like a self correcting problem.
Self-preservation is just one part of the equation; I couldn't care less what an idiot might do to themselves, it's what they could do to me and my boat. And, to a lesser extent, what the actions of idiots do that reflects on the whole boating community.

I can see both sides. I love just getting out on the water, free of any restrictions... and I take some pride in acquiring enough knowledge (CYA courses, personal reading, practice) to navigate and operate more safely and to be a more responsible member of the community.

The mandatory card here in Canada (PCOC) seems a bit of a joke - $40, one afternoon of memorization, an easy test -but everyone has been exposed to the basics at least once.
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Old 27-08-2016, 11:33   #34
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

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I believe the cut-off for requiring certification in the UK is 24.99m LOA - not needing a license to operate pleasure vessels below 25m covers most everybody!
And with a long and successful history in sailing of self education with a bit of pride taken in knowing how to sail, there really is no problem to solve in the UK.
Occasional idiots everywhere of course, but licensing doesn't really do much to root them out.

As for cruising, unfortunately google will find the rules and regulations of various countries but not how some bad tempered official having a bad morning will demand so an ICC is a good idea, round Europe anyway. And a smile
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Old 28-08-2016, 08:53   #35
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

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What are you going to do or better said what are your plans now you have your license? Live a board permanently? Just curious. (By the way congratulations on getting it) ������������
Thanks! My plans are to live aboard permanently as of September. Practice, practice, practice on the Med. Fix issues on the boat. And before winter, head south slowly. Along the coast of Spain, Gibraltar, Morocco and the west coast of Africa to Senegal. I have friends there I'd love to visit. One being an ex-sailor with the Senegalese navy. Then cross over to Cape Verde or continue following the African coast. All depending on weather, whom I meet, and whatever other unforeseeable event I may cruise into. Not really a plan, but a dream.

Africa intrigues me for many reasons. Its beauty, people and lack of conventional cruisers. It gets such a bad rap in the news, and I believe from experience that reality is usually not as dramatic as reported. I'd love to shed some positive light about this most fascinating continent. I come from a country that has never invaded nations, enslaved people or colonized. We're neutral and non-threatening, and in my travels people were often very curious and hospitable when they met someone from the land of cheese and chocolate. If they bring up watches and banks, then it can be a little tricky
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Old 28-08-2016, 09:10   #36
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

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Originally Posted by Cavalier View Post
I believe the cut-off for requiring certification in the UK is 24.99m LOA - not needing a license to operate pleasure vessels below 25m covers most everybody!

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It's actually 24m and based on a formula like load line not LOA, so about 25m to 26m LOA, say 88ft. If commercial, different rules again.
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Old 28-08-2016, 09:39   #37
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

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Switzerland being a landlocked country, it is home some of Europe biggest lakes. It's somewhat ironic that a license is required to sail the open seas if you own a boat registered under a Swiss flag.

Indeed, and this is why I'll keep sailing under the Belgian flag, and will continue even after I obtain my Swiss citizenship. I did get a sailing license for the lakes, but that was relatively easy. The main problem with getting a Swiss High Seas permit is the eye test. I suffer from colourblindness, and Inquired what the consequences of that would be. The answer was that all I would be able to get is a license with the restriction that I cannot sail by night. Crazy.




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Old 28-08-2016, 10:17   #38
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

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Indeed, and this is why I'll keep sailing under the Belgian flag, and will continue even after I obtain my Swiss citizenship. I did get a sailing license for the lakes, but that was relatively easy. The main problem with getting a Swiss High Seas permit is the eye test. I suffer from colourblindness, and Inquired what the consequences of that would be. The answer was that all I would be able to get is a license with the restriction that I cannot sail by night. Crazy.




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I wonder if the people who made up the rules have ever seen the high seas or even the med. Maybe they only sail on Swiss lakes and made up the rules based on their vivid imagination about what ocean sailing is like

Sweden has a 12mx4m rule. As long as your boat fits under one of those measurements, then there is no licence required. My boat is 12.2 x 3.95 As I'm in the Med and just in case I was ever asked, I did take the Swedish coastal skipper exam, which would have been required if my boat was 5cm wider, just to have paperwork.

Now my boat is Australian and it will be there later in the year I have to get the Aussie licence which is just a theory test.
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Old 28-08-2016, 11:24   #39
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

I think twice before taking the boat out on holidays and opening day.
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Old 28-08-2016, 11:40   #40
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

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Originally Posted by K_V_B View Post
Indeed, and this is why I'll keep sailing under the Belgian flag, and will continue even after I obtain my Swiss citizenship. I did get a sailing license for the lakes, but that was relatively easy. The main problem with getting a Swiss High Seas permit is the eye test. I suffer from colourblindness, and Inquired what the consequences of that would be. The answer was that all I would be able to get is a license with the restriction that I cannot sail by night. Crazy.




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Generally people with color blindness actually have better visual acuity in low light conditions... so bizarre.
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Old 30-08-2016, 13:02   #41
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

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Generally people with color blindness actually have better visual acuity in low light conditions... so bizarre.

My colour blindness is actually more a problem by day then by night. I have a real issue trying to find red buoys. At night I have less issues.


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Old 30-08-2016, 13:21   #42
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

To my Canadian sailing compatriots, does CYA mean something other than Cover Your Ass?
On a delivery down the coast close to 50 years ago on my 40th birthday I recall trying to read a chart off the Columbia River at 0'dark 30 and found it impossible. The red nav light in the nav station did nothing to help and I didn't want destroy my night vision so came back on deck and carried on. When I hit SF Bay, I dropped into to see an ophthalmologist who who told me that I was suffering from creeping old age and to buy a pair of readers?
Worn cheaters ever since! Phil
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Old 05-09-2016, 00:45   #43
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

We are a USA flagged boat and last year returned to Europe (about 10 years since we sailed west) and I have now been asked for my skipper's license in 4 countries (Turkey, in the Black Sea; Greece; Montenegro and last week in Italy.) Over the past 10 years we have sailed to 50 countries and it's only now that anyone wants to see a license. No one seemed to care who issued the license or what qualifications it required as long as it had an official number they could write down. Mine is the ASA "international skipper license" that I think cost $10.
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Old 05-09-2016, 16:28   #44
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
Self-preservation is just one part of the equation; I couldn't care less what an idiot might do to themselves, it's what they could do to me and my boat. And, to a lesser extent, what the actions of idiots do that reflects on the whole boating community.

I can see both sides. I love just getting out on the water, free of any restrictions... and I take some pride in acquiring enough knowledge (CYA courses, personal reading, practice) to navigate and operate more safely and to be a more responsible member of the community.

The mandatory card here in Canada (PCOC) seems a bit of a joke - $40, one afternoon of memorization, an easy test -but everyone has been exposed to the basics at least once.
The PCOC doesn't seem to have made a dent in the idiot powerboaters on Lake ontario. Getting cut off in the middle of the lake by a powerboater that is going full tilt is getting really tired! I actually am beginning to think that powerboaters need to pass a more rigorous exam to just be allowed into a marina! The lack of seamanship and just common courtesy in that group never seases to amaze!!
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Old 11-09-2016, 16:42   #45
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

How would the land-locked Swiss authorities enforce licensing rules outside of their own borders?
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