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Old 26-08-2016, 12:24   #16
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

If licenses were required in USA the number of boaters would plummet. Marinas and restaurants would go out of business. The few boat building firms currently in business would be drastically decreased. Boat prices would skyrocket because the development costs couldn't be spread across as many sales.
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Old 26-08-2016, 12:25   #17
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

I have to wonder who would enforce this. A while back there were long threads about anchoring restrictions in Florida waters. It was pointed out that those restrictions were fairly limited to areas close to large cities with popular anchorages. I have been sailing in Florida/Bahamas for over 50 years and as a rule where I have anchored it was normal to maybe see one or two boats several hundred yards from my boat. On the other hand when I go to some of the popular places there are often big crowds with may power boat operators ignoring basic safety rules; especially on holiday weekends. As an example during one mini lobster seasons in the Florida keys I tried to contact the FWC about an unsafe boat (over crowded, no visible life jackets, excessive speed in a manatee zone, violating lobster harvest rules) and could only get a recording that advised me to call the Tallahassee office; which when I did told me to call the Miami office that resulted in another recording. In all the time I have been boating I have only been boarded once by FWC and it was completely professional. On the other hand too many times to count I have seen boats I thought should have been boarded and issued citations for things like excessive speed, dangerous operation, what ever and there was no official in sight.

Bottom line for me is if someone wants to get some type of certification that is fine but once you are even a short distance from the authorities it is not likely anyone would be able to check if you have a paper saying you can go sailing.
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Old 26-08-2016, 12:26   #18
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

All sailors have to pass the most stringent set of tests and retest on a regular basis - Its called getting back to the dock in one piece! An artificial test or license tries to predict whether you have the skills to do this and helps other to decide if they want to sail with you, let you into there marina etc. Whether you believe rules should protect people from themselves or just from others is a contentious political topic
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Old 26-08-2016, 12:29   #19
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

Great videos Alex, been following you since you started!

Here in Argentina you have to have a license, starting with boat handler and then different certifications right up to the equivalent to offshore skipper. I am English born but resident in Argentina, here I have my equivalent of costal skipper I don't know what would happen if I decided to go off shore and international. That is with a Argentine flagged/registered boat. I'll just have to find out when the time comes. The certification tests are pretty thorough, very bureaucratic and pretty expensive. Depending on how one goes about it its useful, but in my opinion it has a lot to do with the PNA (Prefectura Naval Argentina) collecting funds! Safe sailing with your "Galopin" and next tuna you land try sashimi!!! Saludos
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Old 26-08-2016, 12:30   #20
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

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Originally Posted by Tetepare View Post
If licenses were required in USA the number of boaters would plummet. Marinas and restaurants would go out of business. The few boat building firms currently in business would be drastically decreased. Boat prices would skyrocket because the development costs couldn't be spread across as many sales.
Have to disagree.

A license is required to drive a car and look at how many morons drive cars. It would be the same for boats.

Also keep in mind that as I pointed out earlier enforcement is a problem. There are simply not enough FWC, USCG, who ever to check. In places like Los Angeles and Miami it is estimated that from 1/3 to 1/2 of the cars on the road are not street legal. The cops know it and ignore it because they have more important things to do. Why do you think it would be any different; in fact worse on the water?
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Old 26-08-2016, 12:49   #21
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

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What a nightmare! In the UK you can just pick up a 1 million pound yacht and go. Not advisable, but at least but at least you have freedom instead of bureacracy, responsibility instead of dictatorship. And after all most people go to sea to get away from all of this. Long may it continue!

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And this scares the willies out of me. Some Merchant Banker with his million quid bonus decides to buy a Sunseeker and show off to his mates. No bloody idea about the Collision Regulations or navigation, tides, currents, weather or marine safety. Steams out of Poole Harbour at 30kts and straight into the side of a sailing yacht killing all on board.

Think that can't happen? Well it did in Croatia a few years ago when a power boater hit a yacht at 30kts, cutting it in two. He claimed he had no steering which is why he couldn't avoid the collision but why leave the throttles fully open?

Licencing won't necessarily remove the muppets from the sea but at least there is something to ensure everyone who is in command of a vessel has the basic competencies.

You can't buy a million pound Ferrari and drive it off the forecourt without the licence so why do we accept this kind of idiocy on the sea?

Thankfully Croatia insists that all skippers have the ICC as a minimum proof of competency. The RYA will issue this free if you have the Day Skipper so it isn't a financial burden either.

Undertaking training to improve your skills or knowledge is a valuable thing to do so why not have something to prove you have done this? It's like spending 4 years at University then not picking up your degree certificate.
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Old 26-08-2016, 13:15   #22
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

Totally understand what you are saying and indeed I have both ICC and RYA qualifications. However accidents to both qualified and unqualified. I am in no way saying one should not be qualified and indeed RYA scheme is recognised as one of the most desired and respected. However whilst the courses were excellent my first single handed sail was a real lesson. But then single handed is another minefield and will give the health and safety brigade a weekend of nightmares, so we won't go there!

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Old 26-08-2016, 14:38   #23
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

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Have to disagree.

A license is required to drive a car and look at how many morons drive cars. It would be the same for boats.

Also keep in mind that as I pointed out earlier enforcement is a problem. There are simply not enough FWC, USCG, who ever to check. In places like Los Angeles and Miami it is estimated that from 1/3 to 1/2 of the cars on the road are not street legal. The cops know it and ignore it because they have more important things to do. Why do you think it would be any different; in fact worse on the water?
They would enforce the law when you hit something or got hit. Litigation would probably go up (is that even possible?) because you are "licensed and know better, or should have known better!"

Ugh, requiring the education and then giving certificates is probably good; too many weekend and holiday idiots on the water. But it all creates other, legal problems for the crasher and crashee..

PS: Hey Alex, we are subs and have watched from the beginning. Love your channel, your insight and your sense of humor!
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Old 27-08-2016, 02:36   #24
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

Funny enough, Switzerland is the most armed country per capita after Israel. Mainly because of the militia army system. All available men in service have their gun at home in the basement or attic. And the army is strictly defensive. As far as banking, that's another army which is pretty powerful.
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Old 27-08-2016, 02:39   #25
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

Apparently that's the case for France also. They are important manufacturers and there is a huge industry around it. Makes economic sense. It would be as if Switzerland required licenses to ski (which would prevent an astronomical increase in collisions), yet the industry would would, I dare say, go downhill.
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Old 27-08-2016, 02:41   #26
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

Thanks for watching! Finally got word I will receive my license. Should get back to Galopin next week and really start learning.
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Old 27-08-2016, 02:49   #27
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

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Originally Posted by tomfl View Post
I have to wonder who would enforce this. A while back there were long threads about anchoring restrictions in Florida waters. It was pointed out that those restrictions were fairly limited to areas close to large cities with popular anchorages. I have been sailing in Florida/Bahamas for over 50 years and as a rule where I have anchored it was normal to maybe see one or two boats several hundred yards from my boat. On the other hand when I go to some of the popular places there are often big crowds with may power boat operators ignoring basic safety rules; especially on holiday weekends. As an example during one mini lobster seasons in the Florida keys I tried to contact the FWC about an unsafe boat (over crowded, no visible life jackets, excessive speed in a manatee zone, violating lobster harvest rules) and could only get a recording that advised me to call the Tallahassee office; which when I did told me to call the Miami office that resulted in another recording. In all the time I have been boating I have only been boarded once by FWC and it was completely professional. On the other hand too many times to count I have seen boats I thought should have been boarded and issued citations for things like excessive speed, dangerous operation, what ever and there was no official in sight.

Bottom line for me is if someone wants to get some type of certification that is fine but once you are even a short distance from the authorities it is not likely anyone would be able to check if you have a paper saying you can go sailing.
It was a great and valuable experience to go through this licensing. But deep my belief is that it's an insurance thing. Like a car if you don't have a license you're not insured. And if anything happens they won't cover. The Swiss are the most insured people in the world, ironically we live in one of the safest societies. Insurance is a huge business for the Swiss. Many jobs to push papers around and argue why they shouldn't pay. Don't get me going on this... because our health system cost a fortune in insurance premiums.
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Old 27-08-2016, 05:05   #28
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

What are you going to do or better said what are your plans now you have your license? Live a board permanently? Just curious. (By the way congratulations on getting it) ������������
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Old 27-08-2016, 05:21   #29
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

Quote:
Originally Posted by inchcailloch View Post
In the UK you can just pick up a 1 million pound yacht and go. Not advisable, but at least but at least you have freedom instead of bureacracy, responsibility instead of dictatorship.


I believe the cut-off for requiring certification in the UK is 24.99m LOA - not needing a license to operate pleasure vessels below 25m covers most everybody!

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Old 27-08-2016, 06:31   #30
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Re: Sailing License. To have or not to have?

Its obvious most are talking about 'Home Waters'.. Take a lesson from Lochte.. you can't get away with the same things overseas.. 😀
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