Sailing in Greece

[zeppe]

Hello everyone, just to introduce ourselves. We are a family of 3, a son 13 years of age. A wife who was very nervous of sailing ! I have sailed from a very early age mainly in the Irish Sea.

The lasy 3 years we have chartered a yacht and sailed the North and South Ionian, this has re kindled my bug for sailing and helped my wifes confidence enough to look at taking the plunge and buy ouselves a yacht.

We are looking at purchasing a yacht between 36 - 41 foot. We don't know the best type although have looked at some second hand Bavarias. What are your views ?

Where would be the best ( cost effective ) place to berth it ?

Does anyone have any experience on buying a new boat on a ''Partnership Scheme'' with a charter company as this is an option that we have considered ?

All your views and advice would be gratefully received as we do not want to go into this totally blind and make unnecessary costly mistakes

[zeppe]

Guys, due to the response am I to assume that the forum does not have any members familiar with this area ?

[SkiprJohn]

Aloha Zeppe,
Keep trying and be patient. It could be that the people that can answer your questions are out sailing or they might be thinking of a thoughtful response.
Kind regards,
JohnL

[Pblais]

I think most of your question really don't have much to do with sailing in Greece other than a place to keep a boat. A good friend has a 2000 Bavaria 37 he bought new and it is now used. He has done a few things to it. The electrical system needed reworking and he had to re bed all the stanchions as they leaked. That may not be typical but certainly not out of the ordinary after 8 years of use.

The fractional rig makes it a very nice sail when the winds are light or under 20 knots. Above 20 knots and the boat vibrates. I would not take one to the North Sea.

Partnerships with the charter companies work for some people but the primary thing is you carry the loan no matter what happens to the charter company. At the end of the term you get a well used boat. You need to review all the costs and issues to see if works for you.

Going blind adds costs. You can find a lot already written in the archives here and on all the topics you are interested in and you'll find more about things you didn't know you didn't know too.

[swagman]

Hi Zeppe,

With the current sad economic climate worldwide I suspect you'd pick up a bargain Bavaria almost anywhere in the Med if thats what you want.

Not sure I'd go with an ex charter yacht as most are not as loved as personally cherished vessels - but suggest the web is as good a place to search for what you want as anywhere else.

The UK's www.YBW.com site has thousands of yachts for sale - private and dealers.

The local magazines are sure to hold a smaller range of privately owned yachts - I'd guess more advertising in those would be the keenest vendors right now.

One hears lots of negatives about Bavarias and for sure they build down to a price - but then that is what allows them to build so many and hence get economies of scale etc.

I do know of people who've sailed them with no issues back and forth over the North Sea - but IMHO it is usually the sailor more than the boat that decitates where one can sail them. In fact some guys we know are sailing one right now from Greece to Sydney - no worries!

I think your past choice of cruising ground is ideal if you want to keep building the confidence of your partner - so maybe looking for something for sale in Greece or indeed Turkey (remembering you might have ex EU / no VAT issues to solve) makes sense?

If you've got any further specific questions more than happy to provide what advice we can or indeed some Med based contacts you could also communicate with. Send me a private message if you want.

Good luck
JOHN

[zeppe]

Thanks for the responses chaps, was feeling a little lonely. Point taken about forum members may be sailing, I need to be more patient

I understand that a Bavaria is no Swan, but the type of sailing I will be doing for the first few years should not be to challenging' You do hear stories of keels falling off' but hey nothing is perfect !! I am sure a survey would soon highlight any major problems

I will look around th forum for threads that are relevant to my questions also.

[swagman]

Originally Posted by zeppe

Thanks for the responses chaps, was feeling a little lonely. Point taken about forum members may be sailing, I need to be more patient

I understand that a Bavaria is no Swan, but the type of sailing I will be doing for the first few years should not be to challenging' You do hear stories of keels falling off' but hey nothing is perfect !! I am sure a survey would soon highlight any major problems

I will look around th forum for threads that are relevant to my questions also.

Hi Zeppe,
Take all the stories in perspective. The keel that fell off one Bavaria was off one of their 'Match' race boats - not a regular cruiser. And keels have fallen off a lot more yachts made by much more prestiguous manufacturers than just Bavaria - its just you don't have it shouted from the rooftops quite so much.
Cheers
JOHN

[migot1]

Hi
I have been sailing this waters GREECE for over 30 years. windup to 35 KN every mornning! anchr drags...well it is not easy. purchasing a boat is best in Turkety and Israel . A moody 42 1985 would cost about 30,000 pounds....or less. I can recommend a Pro Surveyor. please feel free to ask Q.
Mike
migot

[JORDANBASSET]

Originally Posted by migot1

Hi
I have been sailing this waters GREECE for over 30 years. windup to 35 KN every mornning! anchr drags...well it is not easy. purchasing a boat is best in Turkety and Israel . A moody 42 1985 would cost about 30,000 pounds....or less. I can recommend a Pro Surveyor. please feel free to ask Q.
Mike
migot

Not sure what part of Greece has 35 knots of wind every morning. Yes in some parts for limited periods you get regular wind which can be strong. However I have, on and off, sailed quite a lot in Greece and most times the bigger worry is too little or no wind at all! As to anchors dragging, have had no problem, as any where if set right providing you have picked the right location. Greece is ideal for anchoring in quiet bays overnight.

As to Turkey, have sailed there as well, not a lot of difference from Greece re sailing. Culture is of course different, but found people in both countries friendly

Both have good sailing areas and offer variety -

[Ram]

Hi
Im In Kythria, Greece at the moment awaiting out winds of up to 39 knots-and have been in Greece about a full year now, the weather in the Ionian is milder than The Agean, and I can see 20-40 knots of wind about 50% of the time in the Cyclades(summer months) and boats do drag anchor, I have 4 different anchors onboard for different bottoms, and I need them!

[JORDANBASSET]

Hi, yes I am aware of this, as I referred to in my post, there are areas that get strong winds, or the meltemi, and you are catching that. As you are aware this is particularly strong in the summer months, less so early and late summer.

But you are not surely saying you always have 35 knots of wind every morning in all of Greece, which is what I was querying. My experience is the winds tend to be stonger in the afternoon than the morning. Perhaps I have just been lucky as have not had the experience you have had in Greece.

As for anchoring, providing I have anchored in good holding, sheltered from the wind, not really had a problem

Will become full time liveaboard next year but looking at the US and Caribean - envy you, hope you are enjoying it - best wishes

[bobnlesley]

...I have been sailing this waters GREECE for over 30 years. windup to 35 KN every mornning! anchr drags...well it is not easy...

To suffer this 'every morning' you would need to be using North Facing Anchorages in the Cyclades during mid-summer and even then you would be unfortunate to suffer 'every' morning. How come after 30+ years you still haven't worked out how to choose a sheltered anchorage and use it succesfully?

99.99% of all the other thousands of Cruisers in Greek waters seem to be managing it OK

[migot1]

Just lookup the weather charts of the Cyclades...you will soon see what I say. often have I heard a visiting yachts creaw say : never again in the Cyclades.

true , you can be lucky, sometimes............

[bobnlesley]

...lookup the weather charts of the Cyclades...

Why? I've sailed there, twice and whilst I have experienced 35 (and more) knot winds, these have not blown 'every' day and especially not in the morning; in my experience, even the Aegean Meltemi is in part 'temperature driven' with the strongest winds blowing in late afternoon.

A more likely cause of strong early morning winds would be the Katabatic wind effect that sometimes occurs, we've been caught by a couple of these and whilst our anchor's held, we've seen others drag. However, these are very rare in the Cyclades since they require a largish landmass and steep/high hill to windward so're far more prevalent around the Mainland, Peloponese and Southern Crete coastlines; even there these are far from 'every morning' occurrances. In addition, they tend to occur in a small number of bays which a decent Pilot-Book will identify as being 'at risk' so you have the opportunity to either go elsewhere or make doubly sure that you're securely anchored; also being offshore winds they don't create large seas.

[JimB]

The normal Cyclades meltemi winds are usually reported at F7 (30kts) maximum for a 2 to 4 day period. There is diurnal variation, such that the F7 afternoon peak is usually a F5 in the mornings. The meltemi occurs abour 30% of the time over the peak summer months. The rest of the time, sailing conditions are delightful, but I would advise a 36ft boat if you're going to spend time in the area. Otherwise, working to windward in a F5 is rather uncomfortable. Do that along the Peloponese coast or up the Dodecanese.

The British Admiralty pilot reports F8 as occurring less than 3% of the time during summer, so I'm not sure where these wild reports of permanent 35kts come from . . .

More about Greek weather on my web site, among other useful junk about Europe.

Google 'jimb sail' to find it.

JimB