Over winter in Europe strategy

[hpeer]

Great! Do they also have a 90 in 180? Or some other scheme.

While I'm at it, I should ask what chart books do you recommend?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Great! Do they also have a 90 in 180? Or some other scheme.

While I'm at it, I should ask what chart books do you recommend?

Ireland will give you 90 days the UK will give up to 180. You can renter as much as you wish.

Charts , IMRAY, admiralty ,

Dave

[savoir]

Citizens of USA and Canada get 6 months in UK without a visa. If you want longer you will have to apply for a visa and give your reasons. That can be done either before you arrive or once you are in UK anytime during the first five months.

The six months is continuous meaning you can leave and return to restart the clock. This multiple entry setup will have an overall limit of 1 to 2 years so you have to clarify how long they have given you if you want to come and go.

UK Border Agency | Visas and immigration

[hpeer]

You guys are great, thanks to all.

Is there a recommended book or web site where I could read up on other issues without driving you all crazy? Proof of competency, insurance, documents, etc?

[stevewrye]

[QUOTE=goboatingnow;1154561]No. , when you arrive in France , your 6 month clock starts ticking. You have 9o days in the Schengen area during that 6 month period , first started by arriving in France. Going out of the Schengen area doesn't stop the 180 day clock , it does stop the 90 day one.

The customs guy is supposed to check (a) when you 6 month period started. And ( b) add up all the days in and out of the Schengen area since then.

In practice most look just at the entry stamp.

Ps why on earth go from France to Falmouth to get a Bimini.

Thanks Dave, That makes our time in the Schengen area doable, we will spend more time in GB but cross the Bay of Biscay before the Atlantic lows start to become frequent and go to Portugal. Maybe spend some time in Gibraltar too.

They make better Bimini's in Gb than France. We did not like any of the French made canvas work we looked at and they are really expensive. Besides it will be good to hang out in that part of the world as we are in no real hurry to get back to the S. Pacific

Cheers

Steve and Tracy

[alcheringa]

The whole schengen thing is a pain. Goboatingnow is right. Going out of the Schengen area doesn't stop the 180 day clock ,but it does stop the 90 day one until you get stamped back in to a schengen country which restarts the count at whatever number of days you were up to when you left. When you leave you have to get stamped out or you may not be regarded as out until you are stamped into the non-schengen country you’re going to. However you should also make sure your ships log is up to date. Last summer we kept track of our own days and didn't include any in our 90 that were spent sailing in international waters between countries. ie four days spent sailing through the Adriatic direct from Northern Italy to Malta.
We went to all that trouble and then, when we were finally leaving Spain to come to Gib we went to the harbour master's office to check out, they told us they didn't stamp passports and said "People go to Gibraltar and back all the time. Just go."
Arriving in Gibraltar customs and immigration is handled by the marina and guess what. They don't stamp passports. We had to walk down to the border and ask for them to be stamped. Making it even more ridiculous, when you walk through the frontier between Spain and Gibraltar they don't stamp it either. So next month when we’re ready to head back into the Med, our boat is UK registered, we could have our British partner take the boat a mile to the marina in La Linea just the on other side of the border while we walk through to jump on and our clocks wouldn't start until we finally got stamped in somewhere later down the road. It’s nuts but that’s the way it is.
We’ve also had a number of cruisers tell us that the only time they’ve had trouble is when they’ve left the schengen zone via plane and have had officials dig through their passports adding up the days between their ins and outs. No one we’ve asked that’s checked out in their boat has had this happen.

[hpeer]

Great site, but very euro centric.

For example....does a US six pack work as a cert of competency?

[seanseamour]

Lay up in Gibraltar, Marina Bay is secure, behind it was Sheppards, a working yard where I kept my 44CC for two years. Avoid Spain, they will clock the seconds you spend in their waters. South Sardinia is cool to foreign cruisers but avoid the north that has more business than they need. North east of Cagliari there are some new marinas hungry for business.

[MacG]

Th UK is no Schengen area. They have not signed the treaty.

I advice go to Holland. Very low cost and no political issues. Plenty of small marina's where they would welcome you and supply you with all: shorepower, toilets etc. Holland is Schengen area and as long as your entry is legal, you are in the ok area. Your boat is not subject to red tape or other bureaucratical threats like in the Med area.

[seanseamour]

The issue is VAT, it is 6 months relief and Dutch tax authorities take what they can, where they can. Before Schengen if you had a parking ticket in say Amsterdam they could try it at the border as it happened to us. I know, my wife is Dutch and a part of her pension, although we pay our taxes in France (bad enough and getting worse), convention or not is a yearly administrative fight ie on social services we don't use and France provides. I do believe the UK is also strict and harbor fees humongous.

[stevewrye]

Thank you to all,

I think I finally understand, it's only taken me two years of worry since we ordered the boat of how we were going to handle the schengan visa problem.

Now we can spend of the 5 months we will have to be in Europe before crossing the Atlantic in early December. With 2 months in non Schengan countries and we will spend two and a half months in Schengan countries. That would leave us about two weeks of the Schengan visa for the Canary Islands at the end of November for a weather window to leave from the Canaries. Even if we are a bit over 90 days because of weather I'm sure there would be no problem.

Thanks again.

[seanseamour]

Last point as it is a new boat, delay final transaction even if 1% as your tax liability (VAT) starts when you accept full delivery - AND with foreign documentation (non EU) ALL your equipment can be puirchased without VAT (on average 20%). Fair sailing.

[MacG]

Far away from reality.

VAT is only applicable if you do import a vessel after a certain period. I imported a foreign registrated boat and paid VAT after 18 months.

Ir depends on how you work with people. Anyway, I live in Holland and I know the situation.

[LJH]

Originally Posted by stevewrye

Boy they sure make things hard for cruisers. For my wife and I we fly to France 1st of July to pick up the new boat do sea trials for a month in France. Then we have to go over to Falmouth, England to have Bimini made that will be about two weeks and then we have to decide where to go next while we wait before we cross the pond in early December. We will be over our three months anyway we look at it by December.

I'm not sure if we hang out in Portugal or western Spain through September and October where customs seem a little more at ease about cruisers overstaying their visa is worth the risk. We could leave Spain near the end of our visa and go to Morocco and wait till sometime in November before heading to the Verde Islands but that is bloody hot and dusty that time of year. We would rather spend the time in Europe so we are looking into the long term tourist Visa for France. And it is a bear just to fill out the paper work and a fly down to San Francisco to apply for the visa sometime in the 3 months before we leave on July 1st, all that is required. But that 1 year or 6 month visa I think would allow us to go to any Schengan country over that 1 year or 6 month time of the visa.

I guess we are all stuck in a bad place.

I am overwintering in RABAT, Morocco. We arrived at the beginning of November. Temperatures were very comfortable. The coast areas are very green and the only dust around here is from construction.

UK Ireland, and Gibraltar are not Schengen countries. If you plan a stop in the Canaries or Madeiras they are Schengen

Portugal apparently will charge you 2 euro a day if you overstay your Schengen visa. They checked my dates when I left Portimao on day 89! Keep a log of your entries and exits and they will look at your stamps to compare them.

[stevewrye]

Originally Posted by seanseamour

Last point as it is a new boat, delay final transaction even if 1% as your tax liability (VAT) starts when you accept full delivery - AND with foreign documentation (non EU) ALL your equipment can be puirchased without VAT (on average 20%). Fair sailing.

Boreal has an agent that will take care of tax liability before we leave France. Seeing we are American there should be no problem with the tax on the boat.

I'm ready to ship 3 pallets over to France with new and old gear. I have to itemize each item in French with cost in the Euro. Older stuff is a guess, new stuff is easier. From what I hear sometimes the equipment goes through without being taxed if Boreal has a letter attached saying boat is foreign registered and they give their VAT #. But we will see, if we are taxed we can get it back latter with the right paper work. It's a lot of work getting that gear ready to go.

A lot of the equipment we purchase in Europe. I send Boreal an email of what I want and from what company to be purchased from and they purchase it for us using their VAT #. We do not pay the VAT that way and all purchases that Boreal makes goes on our final bill. It's really nice to work with such a great company as Boreal, they bend over backwards to make the experience of purchasing a new boat enjoyable.