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Old 08-02-2013, 05:03   #31
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Re: Over winter in Europe strategy

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If you are visa limited ask if you can get a long term visa. Some countries grant such visas to sailors.
who does , Ive yet to see despite several people telling me there are . There are national long stay visas,( studying , temp work etc) but they dont solve the Schengen issue. Equally they can make you a resident and you dont want to screw up the VAT concession.
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Old 08-02-2013, 05:07   #32
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Re: Over winter in Europe strategy

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Its my understanding that imports have no age limits... even if they were built in Europe... after 2 yrs abroad everythings VAT liable
No Boatman, what you are talking about is Returned Goods Relief. Once ownership does not change , you can by agreement with you customs office, take the boat away from the EU for as long as you like and return with it, with no VAT implications

In practice since there is no checkin, for EU residents returning ( from the sea), no one knows how long the boat has been away for, anyway, and no ones really cares.

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Old 09-02-2013, 20:08   #33
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Re: Over winter in Europe strategy

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Originally Posted by madsb View Post
Was there any particular reason for having to leave your boat in the Channel Islands, given you have 18 months of TIR status on the boat?
Not really, other than i was pointed in that direction.

But I think now Ireland is more economical.

But still seeking advice.
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Old 09-02-2013, 20:25   #34
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Re: Over winter in Europe strategy

So, let me see if I got this right. And I have another restriction that is less common, but more severe. If I spend more than six months a year away from home I get an automatic divorce. Now THAT is pricey!

Say I leave Newfoundland June 1, do Greenland.

Hit Iceland July 15 for 5 days.

Then go to into a Schengan country for 84 days.

Then to England and Ireland through November.

Now I can't go back into a Schengan country until January 15, 2014.

But if I come back in June 2013, I get another 90 days in Schengan.

Right?
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Old 09-02-2013, 20:45   #35
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Re: Over winter in Europe strategy

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Not really, other than i was pointed in that direction.

But I think now Ireland is more economical.

But still seeking advice.
There are a few good deals on the UK south coast. Look for smaller marinas with limited facilities which means all of the Premier chain is out. If you are going to be off the boat why would you care ?

Take a look at the Hamble River. The further inland you go the cheaper it gets. There are a couple of cheap places up by the bridge. You can also get a good deal from anyone with moorings. Locals don't want to sit in a dinghy in cold weather but if you are getting off the boat why worry ?

If you are OK with leaving the boat in Devon then take a look at the MDL website under Zone 3. Good deals for winter. Actually some of the Zone 2 places are cheap too.

http://www.mdlmarinas.co.uk/winter-berthing
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Old 10-02-2013, 03:53   #36
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Re: Over winter in Europe strategy

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who does , Ive yet to see despite several people telling me there are . There are national long stay visas,( studying , temp work etc) but they dont solve the Schengen issue. Equally they can make you a resident and you dont want to screw up the VAT concession.
Rather than visa, I should have said longer term residence permits (which aren't necessarily the same as making you resident or tax resident). Also, (and I didn't make this clear) I was thinking of countries outside Schengen. A clear example is Turkey, where many nationalities can get residence permits for as long as the boat berth contract.

Within Schengen some nationalities (sorry, I can't find the reference, but NZ comes to mind) have automatic longer permissions to reside in some countries within Schengen. Since there's no border control, the theoretical any 90 days out of 6 months is then bypassed in favour of a longer stay. Any Oz, Canadians, NZ, south Africa or other nationalities out there aware of such concessions?
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Old 10-02-2013, 04:06   #37
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Re: Over winter in Europe strategy

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It is entirely possible to obtain two contiguous 3 month stays , in effect adding to 6 months in the Schengen area, There was a ECJ ruling in this and it was detailed in a post that Mcarling and I corresponded.
Dave
Interesting. Thanks for that. The EU legislation quotes "any 90 days within a 6 month period". The 180 day visa renewal limit seems to conflict with that - it implies the policing differs from the intention. So, not surpising there has been a court case.

Can you point me to your correspondence/references on this?
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Old 10-02-2013, 04:35   #38
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Re: Over winter in Europe strategy

France, Italy and Spain all offer 6 - 12 month visas to the "right" people but it isn't automatic. The general idea is that you must prove yourself sufficiently wealthy to not burden their welfare system. You will have to be approved before arrival.

Here is a sample of the details.

http://www.consulfrance-washington.o...php?article401
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:34   #39
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Re: Over winter in Europe strategy

Boy they sure make things hard for cruisers. For my wife and I we fly to France 1st of July to pick up the new boat do sea trials for a month in France. Then we have to go over to Falmouth, England to have Bimini made that will be about two weeks and then we have to decide where to go next while we wait before we cross the pond in early December. We will be over our three months anyway we look at it by December.

I'm not sure if we hang out in Portugal or western Spain through September and October where customs seem a little more at ease about cruisers overstaying their visa is worth the risk. We could leave Spain near the end of our visa and go to Morocco and wait till sometime in November before heading to the Verde Islands but that is bloody hot and dusty that time of year. We would rather spend the time in Europe so we are looking into the long term tourist Visa for France. And it is a bear just to fill out the paper work and a fly down to San Francisco to apply for the visa sometime in the 3 months before we leave on July 1st, all that is required. But that 1 year or 6 month visa I think would allow us to go to any Schengan country over that 1 year or 6 month time of the visa.

I guess we are all stuck in a bad place.
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Old 11-02-2013, 13:05   #40
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Re: Over winter in Europe strategy

Stevewrye your time in the UK won't count in your 90 days as while it's EU it's not part of the schengen treaty. Neither is Gibraltar. We've been here since October and will head back into the Med next month. Gib is very relaxed with a good marina at a reasonable price so if you do have to cool your heals somewhere before heading further south it would be a good option. Have a look at our blog and you'll find info about the marinas and what's around to do. www.dreamtimesail.blogspot.com/
Good luck with the new boat. Cheers.
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Old 11-02-2013, 14:43   #41
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Re: Over winter in Europe strategy

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Stevewrye your time in the UK won't count in your 90 days as while it's EU it's not part of the schengen treaty. Neither is Gibraltar. We've been here since October and will head back into the Med next month. Gib is very relaxed with a good marina at a reasonable price so if you do have to cool your heals somewhere before heading further south it would be a good option. Have a look at our blog and you'll find info about the marinas and what's around to do. www.dreamtimesail.blogspot.com/
Good luck with the new boat. Cheers.
Alcheringa,

Thank you for your information, we will look into Gibraltar. Very nice blog and we will take a look at it more. Will you be crossing the Atlantic next December?

I'm just really confused from everything I've read. It seems to me that the day we step into France our 90 day visa starts and does not stop till 90 days are up. Does not matter if we go to the UK or Gibraltar or any other non Schengan countries for a week or two in that 90 days. The way I see it and I hope I'm wrong is when we check out of Schengan Europe the customs guy is only going to look at the date we entered Schengan Europe. Or does that customs officer look at all the stamps from places like GB and Gibraltar and subtract those days stayed in those countries from the 90 day Schengan visa?

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Never been more confused.
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Old 11-02-2013, 16:22   #42
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Originally Posted by jckb

Interesting. Thanks for that. The EU legislation quotes "any 90 days within a 6 month period". The 180 day visa renewal limit seems to conflict with that - it implies the policing differs from the intention. So, not surpising there has been a court case.

Can you point me to your correspondence/references on this?
The European Court of Justice case which definitively interpreted these rules is Nicolae Bot v Préfet du Val-de-Marne.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...241%3AEN%3APDF

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Old 11-02-2013, 16:28   #43
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Originally Posted by stevewrye

Alcheringa,

Thank you for your information, we will look into Gibraltar. Very nice blog and we will take a look at it more. Will you be crossing the Atlantic next December?

I'm just really confused from everything I've read. It seems to me that the day we step into France our 90 day visa starts and does not stop till 90 days are up. Does not matter if we go to the UK or Gibraltar or any other non Schengan countries for a week or two in that 90 days. The way I see it and I hope I'm wrong is when we check out of Schengan Europe the customs guy is only going to look at the date we entered Schengan Europe. Or does that customs officer look at all the stamps from places like GB and Gibraltar and subtract those days stayed in those countries from the 90 day Schengan visa?

Signed,
Never been more confused.
No. , when you arrive in France , your 6 month clock starts ticking. You have 9o days in the Schengen area during that 6 month period , first started by arriving in France. Going out of the Schengen area doesn't stop the 180 day clock , it does stop the 90 day one.

The customs guy is supposed to check (a) when you 6 month period started. And ( b) add up all the days in and out of the Schengen area since then.

In practice most look just at the entry stamp.

Ps why on earth go from France to Falmouth to get a Bimini.

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Old 11-02-2013, 16:38   #44
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Re: Over winter in Europe strategy

So...how do we get an exit stamp? Go back to the immigration office?


AND .....

What are the limitations for visiting Great Britan and Ireland? For a Canadian? Not another 90 day visa I pray!
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Old 11-02-2013, 17:05   #45
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So...how do we get an exit stamp? Go back to the immigration office?

AND .....

What are the limitations for visiting Great Britan and Ireland? For a Canadian? Not another 90 day visa I pray!
Fraid so.

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