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Old 05-02-2013, 12:44   #16
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Re: Over winter in Europe strategy

Foreign boats do not undergo the VAT regime. They enter on TI status and where we are this is 18 months. Keep VAT and visa issues separate as they are separate - the visa is your problem and the VAT is the boat's problem.

If you are visa limited ask if you can get a long term visa. Some countries grant such visas to sailors.

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Old 05-02-2013, 13:45   #17
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Re: Over winter in Europe strategy

At the risk of adding confusion - although probably unlikely that OP will visit here, I will add that whilst we are not part of the UK (the legal / constitutional relationship is unclear - I think it got written down sometime in the 12th Century, and then the dog ate it!, and that position has since then worked well for both sides)......

.........nonetheless for immigration we do fall under the UK umbrella at least to the extent that we not only follow what the UK does but that foreigner (non EU) immigration (and Visitors) is run through the UK visa / immigration system in addition to our own - which you approach first I don't know.

Over here they are pretty helpful (give 'em a call) and fundamentally won't care about someone in OP's circumstances simply visiting except that they (we?!) are paranoid about being seen as a "backdoor" into the UK, so OP also bringing his 5 Somali cousins will be frowned upon (and likely they would stick out a bit over here, albeit not quite as much as 20 years ago!).....basically what I am saying is don't turn up unnannounced, unlikely to throw you in the clink - just drown you in paperwork! / ask you to solve the problem by leaving. But the good news is that the main (only?!) immigration office is 5 mins walk away from the visitors Marina! and also that if you get a UK visa that the Jersey (and Guernsey - seperate!) will be a formality that nonetheless should be borne in mind, albeit possible that it will be OK to simply turn up in Jersey - but best to check first!

A visit here might be useful to reset the boat clock, or it might not! (18 months a long time). Not so sure how useful it would be for the Personal Visas (we not Schengen of course).
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Old 05-02-2013, 14:39   #18
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Re: Over winter in Europe strategy

So, what am I looking at for storage fees in Jersey or Guernsey? I tried to look that stuff up and didn't get anywhere?
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Old 05-02-2013, 14:57   #19
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pirate Re: Over winter in Europe strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
So, what am I looking at for storage fees in Jersey or Guernsey? I tried to look that stuff up and didn't get anywhere?
Gurnsey... dated 2011.. so either they're crap updaters or the same price today... dream on..
http://www.guernseyharbours.gov.gg/Harbour%20Charges%20Booklet.pdf

DOJ should be of help with Jersey.. seeing as he's there..
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Old 05-02-2013, 15:12   #20
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Re: Over winter in Europe strategy

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Originally Posted by jckb View Post
Madsb, yes, I've researched this matter thoroughly. Schengen law says any 90 days within a six month period, and entry permits (be they visas or stamps on entry) can't be renewed until 180 days after the first entry.

However, officials vary in the way they've been trained (or not!) to interpret the law. But an overstay, if detected, is a pain. A fine, followed by a ban on obtaining another visa for a period which ramps up depending how long they think you over-stayed.
I've read several sources, and it seems your are correct in the point about having to be out of the Schengen area at the day/night 180 days (actually it seems it is it 6 months) after the date of first entry. I wasn't aware of that point when I wrote my first post in this thread, but it's a worthy point, and it means you can't do the 178 days visit thing.

On the other hand I have read through the case of Nicolae Bot v Préfet du Val-de-Marne where it says:
Quote:
On those grounds, the Court hereby rules:
Article 20(1) of the Convention implementing the Schengen Agreement of
14 June 1985 between the Governments of the States of the Benelux Economic
Union, the Federal Republic of Germany and the French Republic on the
gradual abolition of checks at their common borders, signed on 19 June 1990 at
Schengen, is to be interpreted as meaning that the term 'first entry' in that
provision refers, besides the very first entry into the territories of the
Contracting States to that agreement, to the first entry into those territories
taking place after the expiry of a period of six months from that very first entry
and also to any other first entry taking place after the expiry of any new period
of six months following an earlier date of first entry.
I understand this such that it is not a rolling six month period but that you can start a new six month period with a fresh 90 day stay permit by entering any time after the previous 6 months from the date of first entry have expired - also if that is only 2 days after leaving the Schengen area.

So as I understand it, you should still be able to do (as an example):
1) Do a short entry, for instance a 2 day weekend in Reyjavik in Iceland establishing a date of first entry
2) Leave the Schengen area for 3 months
3) Come back stay in for 3 months minus 2 days
4) Go to London on a 2 day weekend
5) Enter Schengen establishing a new date of first entry
6) Stay in the Schengen area for up to 3 months
7) Leave the Schengen area
8) Now you have to stay out for a consecutive 3 months before re-entering

But IANAL, and even if the above is correct you might end up in a pinch with an official applying a different understanding since it does seem that the actual enforcement does vary widely.
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Old 05-02-2013, 16:06   #21
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Re: Over winter in Europe strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
So, what am I looking at for storage fees in Jersey or Guernsey? I tried to look that stuff up and didn't get anywhere?
Dunno about Guernsey - but the Jersey Tarrifs are here:-

St Helier Marina facilities and charges

There is a PDF download on that page - winter or summer or annual contracts, including to non-residents.....AFAIK they have plenty of space, just a bit shy about admitting it! so don't roll up for a year on spec!

FWIW, one of the CF members keep his boat here (as a non-resident) - me got a trip to England a couple of years back as 3rd hand!, off hand I can't remember his CF name (I iz getting old!)....which all told is probably info of no great use to you!

Marinas all too expensive for me! - 40 foot boat around £4500pa (USD7,250?) on an annual contract.....me is in the mud and at 30 foot that would be still be £3k in a Marina which covers me for 30 years in the mud!
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Old 06-02-2013, 03:59   #22
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Re: Over winter in Europe strategy

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I think you are a bit tired/confused or something because you are contradicting what it says on the site (Your own site?) you link to: Norway is in the Schengen area.
Ooops! You're quite right. Norway is in Schengen, but outside the EU (It's in the EEA though!)
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Old 06-02-2013, 04:08   #23
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Re: Over winter in Europe strategy

I really like the complexity of the wikipedia figure you referred to. It's just sad they left out CERN, the Nordic Council, the council of Baltic Sea states and the Upper Rhine conference. That would really have added something to the figure
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Old 06-02-2013, 04:25   #24
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Re: Over winter in Europe strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
Dunno about Guernsey - but the Jersey Tarrifs are here:-

St Helier Marina facilities and charges

There is a PDF download on that page - winter or summer or annual contracts, including to non-residents.....AFAIK they have plenty of space, just a bit shy about admitting it! so don't roll up for a year on spec!

FWIW, one of the CF members keep his boat here (as a non-resident) - me got a trip to England a couple of years back as 3rd hand!, off hand I can't remember his CF name (I iz getting old!)....which all told is probably info of no great use to you!

Marinas all too expensive for me! - 40 foot boat around £4500pa (USD7,250?) on an annual contract.....me is in the mud and at 30 foot that would be still be £3k in a Marina which covers me for 30 years in the mud!
Docking fees in Jersey are mighty high for a visitor. A few days here and there are bearable but staying for a season would be tres pricey.
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Old 06-02-2013, 04:39   #25
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Re: Over winter in Europe strategy

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Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
So, what am I looking at for storage fees in Jersey or Guernsey? I tried to look that stuff up and didn't get anywhere?
Was there any particular reason for having to leave your boat in the Channel Islands, given you have 18 months of TIR status on the boat?
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Old 06-02-2013, 05:01   #26
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Re: Over winter in Europe strategy

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Docking fees in Jersey are mighty high for a visitor. A few days here and there are bearable but staying for a season would be tres pricey.
You are not the first person to have noticed that. and most of those don't visit........
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Old 06-02-2013, 06:35   #27
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Re: Over winter in Europe strategy

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Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
If in Ireland do I have to worry about VAT?

Or over staying my time?

I've tried reading up on this stuff and didn't see anything about Ireland.
Good morning! did the crossing last year left the boat in New Ross Ireland at the New ross Boat yard. Absolutely no problems with Irish customs or the Vat. They are happy to see you if you can find them to check in with. We had to do it in the bar at the royal cork YC. Boat yard very very reasonable. We went direct from Bonavista to cork 18 1/2 days Used Herb to route us.
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Old 07-02-2013, 12:44   #28
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Re: Over winter in Europe strategy

The whole schengen thing makes life tricky for cruisers. We flew into Venice in January, joined a boat in Monfalcone and sailed to Malta (yes it was bloody cold) and then out of the schengen zone to Tunisia, back in at Sardinia and across to Spain. We disembarked in southern Spain and when we walked across the frontier into Gibraltar they didn't stamp our passport so it looked like were were still in schengen.

After a few more ins and out we crewed a boat from Gib to the UK before flying to Mallorca to buy our own yacht and spent the rest of last summer in the Balaerics. We headed to Gibraltar to winter out of the schengen zone. We checked in at the marina but had to go to the frontier and ASK to have our passports stamped or we'd still not be recorded as out of the zone.

We keep our personal log books right up to date and if we're ever questioned hope that we can use these to fill in the gaps left by border control.We have however met a large number of cruisers who just ignore the whole thing and have never been challenged on it anywhere.
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Old 08-02-2013, 04:29   #29
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Re: Over winter in Europe strategy

Alcheringa,

You're doing it right.

A challenge is only likely if you leave an organised Schengen country for a non-EU destination using an "approved means of transport" - EU speak for airline or regular ferry. Ferries are pretty slapdash about passport controls, though.

These things are very slowly being tightened up as Schengen immigration databases are becoming more organised.
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Old 08-02-2013, 04:57   #30
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Re: Over winter in Europe strategy

Id like to deal with some of this

It is entirely possible to obtain two contiguous 3 month stays , in effect adding to 6 months in the Schengen area, There was a ECJ ruling in this and it was detailed in a post that Mcarling and I corresponded.

IN essence, you arrive for a brief period into the schengen area, your six months timer starts. say you stay for a day and leave, you may then enter ( 3months -1 day) for the last three months of that six month period. At the end of that period you will have to leave , but you can return immediately and begin another three month period. so in essence I few overnight shopping trips to london get that sorted/

As to a place to stay, I biased, But for a North American, I d leave the boat in Ireland, There is good direct flights closeby from Shannon or Dublin direct to a large number of NA cities. ( for NA read US and Canada).

Let me mtell you if you are from Newfoundland, then you just have to stay in Waterford in Ireland, all the emigrants went to Newfoundland and the accent is uncannily similar, most people would take you for a local , its absolutely bizarre.

You will get on application a 6 months entry into Ireland if you ask. otherwise 90 days. The boat is allowed 18 month without VAT. In practice there is simply no, None , nunca, oversight of VAT on boats in Ireland, there isnt any registration ,entry or exit requirements, rules or regs or anything pertaining to leisure boats other then kids must wear lifejackets.

Marinas will bite your hand off to get the boat at the moment and winter rates are peanuts in all except Dublin and Crosshaven.

Beth and Evans did a similar run and stayed in Kinsale , I know Evans is on CF so pop him a PM, similary pop me a PM.

and PS, The south and west coast are gourmet heavens, the Murphy Stout is brill and ( of yes the weather is pure sh1te, why do you think there are all these pubs around!) Ill get homesick now!


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