Mugged - by a marina

[JRM]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Yep...I was there last week. Just another $7. It adds up after awhile.

I made the mistake of dropping by the office in person to drop off some paperwork and let them know we be headed out for the week just before the King Harbor Race so they could re-rent our slip. I watched some dudes in crazy fancy monogrammed foulies buy seven or eight keys. Guess they don't like to share much...

JRM

[Yofy]

Maybe it's time for some kind of central "review" website for cruisers, like "trip advisor" is for regular travellers.

Businesses servicing tourists go to great lengths to keep their Tripadvisor ratings up, the site has considerable influence.

Be great if some kind of marina review website had the same pull over marina operators.

That is a good idea.

But from our 30 + years of experience dealing with Greek authorities - be it government or a private business - and in this particular situation, I'm not sure it will help. When we run across something like this, we try not to get furious and definitely avoid the place in the future. We also tell everybody we know.

Most Greeks are wonderful, generous and welcoming people. Now and then you run into the exceptions and in situations like this it is REALLY frustrating. But going head to head with them never seems to work.

Manny and Robyn

[gonesail]

midnite to midnite is a total scam. why not just double the rates and be up front about it?

[SaucySailoress]

Originally Posted by Normanby

Maybe it's time for some kind of central "review" website for cruisers, like "trip advisor" is for regular travellers.

Businesses servicing tourists go to great lengths to keep their Tripadvisor ratings up, the site has considerable influence.

Be great if some kind of marina review website had the same pull over marina operators.

World Cruising and Sailing Wiki - a Cruising Guide on the World Cruising and Sailing Wiki is a very comprehensive one for the marinas and areas we have checked out in the Med. Not so great for Middle East (we're the only contributors so far!) and I'm not sure about for America.

Noonsite is a very good one too.

You know that on TripAdvisor you can add locations? I aways check out the surroundings before I visit a new place, so it might be worthwhile posting there too.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

I think the lesson here, for others reading this, is to be sure that you know the rules ahead of time, and also know the office hours.

Obviously.

Just pay before the office closes, and you can leave anytime you like. I'm finding it hard to work up much sympathy, sorry.

You could also have just left, and then called them the moment the office opened the next morning to pay by phone. Then you could never be accused of jumping the bill.

Around here (Atlantic Europe), departure and arrival is often strictly tide-limited, so boats come and go at all kinds of odd hours. If you arrive after office hours, they will often not charge you for the first night at all, as if you came for a short stay only. The rule on the books is usually that you should depart by noon or pay for another night (or short stay), but in practice I have never seen or heard of this being enforced as long as leave before evening, as long as you don't interfere with someone coming in, and if you have reasonable cause -- like waiting for a tide.

This is very different from my experience in U.S. marinas, where hours are usually strictly enforced, as is sometimes even length overall -- which is often really LOA with davits and so forth, and not the length on deck which figures in the boat's model name.

Midnight to midnight sounds really harsh -- does that mean that if you arrive at 18:00 and leave at 09:00 you have to pay for two nights?? Never heard of such a thing. In my experience in the Med it was always noon to noon.

[krissteyn]

As previously posted - the Greek government/authorities take 1 day = 1 date and if 2 days are entered, its 2 days.
I am currently in Mitilini , Lesbos and harbour dues are 5 Eu/midnight to midnight , ie, 1st day arrived 2pm, if leaving next day its 2 dates = 10Eu.
Some marinas are also doing this - those we will publicize and ask everyone to not give them business.

As a matter of interest , the port authorities here are VERY Attentive. Have had no problems, but never seen anything like it before. Would be difficult for someone from the East sneaking in

We are at the town dock, not the marina and its 10eu for a plastic "card" to get electricity and water - and no smaller cards available ???
BUT - no problem... all the points on the dock have available time from the previous user - so technically - we have free water/elec.

Will post that on the various sites when I get a chance...
Just finished a water pump bracket installation (again )

We will persevere and create helpfull newsworthy sites to make our cruising better

(sorry - never seen these smilies before - having fun ...)

Kris

[svBeBe]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Obviously.

Just pay before the office closes, and you can leave anytime you like. I'm finding it hard to work up much sympathy, sorry.

You could also have just left, and then called them the moment the office opened the next morning to pay by phone. Then you could never be accused of jumping the bill.

Around here (Atlantic Europe), departure and arrival is often strictly tide-limited, so boats come and go at all kinds of odd hours. If you arrive after office hours, they will often not charge you for the first night at all, as if you came for a short stay only. The rule on the books is usually that you should depart by noon or pay for another night (or short stay), but in practice I have never seen or heard of this being enforced as long as leave before evening, as long as you don't interfere with someone coming in, and if you have reasonable cause -- like waiting for a tide.

This is very different from my experience in U.S. marinas, where hours are usually strictly enforced, as is sometimes even length overall -- which is often really LOA with davits and so forth, and not the length on deck which figures in the boat's model name.

Midnight to midnight sounds really harsh -- does that mean that if you arrive at 18:00 and leave at 09:00 you have to pay for two nights?? Never heard of such a thing. In my experience in the Med it was always noon to noon.

I think the OP's point was that, in fact, the marina office closed before their appointed hour of closing. Thus, she was unable to pay and clear out because the office staff left earlier than their normal office hours.

As to marinas charging true LOA including all modifications, i.e. davits or stern arch, that is normal at every marina we have visited in the Caribbean, Pacific, Thailand and Med. Several times our boat has been measured rather than accepting the LOA stated on documentation/registration. It does not matter what the LOA was when the boat was manufactured, the marina charges based on the LOA at the time the vessel is berthed in their marina. If you added a meter for davits or arch then you must pay for that additional length.

Judy

[boatman61]

Only place I've had to pay for anything in Greece was the Corinth Canal which cost 100euro...
But then I don't use marina's and the docks and anchorages are free... and a lot more fun...

[Hahser]

This scam is still ongoing - autumn
2017.
If you want to be near Thessaloniki airport then go to Mechaniona
equi distant and like most town marinas in this area - free.
as for DEKPA it is no longer necessary to stamp it in every port.once a year seems enough. Though I sailed for 3 years without one.

[krissteyn]

Fascinating the ongoing un-ethical behavior

Sigh - Cruisers are to be ripped off !

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Normanby

Maybe it's time for some kind of central "review" website for cruisers, like "trip advisor" is for regular travellers.

Businesses servicing tourists go to great lengths to keep their Tripadvisor ratings up, the site has considerable influence.

Be great if some kind of marina review website had the same pull over marina operators.

Have you heard about Active Captain?

https://activecaptain.com

It not only helps you find marinas and posts their rates and services, it has a section for reviews just as you suggest.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

..........This is very different from my experience in U.S. marinas, where hours are usually strictly enforced, as is sometimes even length overall -- which is often really LOA with davits and so forth, and not the length on deck which figures in the boat's model name.. .........

My experience in the US has been that hours are not strictly enforced although I've never tried to stay past noon without paying for an additional day. It's not uncommon for people to pull in as early as 9:00AM and stay for the night and have that count as one "day". Sometimes there's a check out time but if you ask they will usually let you stay later.

As for length, yes, they mean LOA but I've never had a marina challenge what I say or measure the boat.

[zboss]

The problem (if you have davits and a bowsprit) is that if you don’t add some feet they put you in a slip that is too small for your boat. You either end up at a finger pier you can’t get on from the deck or sticking out into the fairway. I love the looks of our bowsprit but I secretly despise it! That extra 3 feet I have to add to my length has probably cost me an extra 1000 or 2000 bucks over the years.

[meirriba]

Here is our Greek experience of 2017 (about 5 months cruise).

1. The 'midnight to midnight' was encountered very rarely. Most places charge by night, asking to leave before noon.
2. Length of boat was charged only per boat's LOA on boat documents. Nobody ever came to physically check the boat, so our (short) bowsprit was never taken into account.
3. Whenever we planned to leave at an hour that the office was closed, we just came to settle the bill in advance. E.g. on the afternoon of the day before if we planned to leave very early in the morning. Nobody ever asked us to pay extra if we left later than the official time by an hour or two.
4. The transit Log/DEKPA issue is in chaos. Notwithstanding the (unclear) legal need to stamp it, we have heard about three different versions from the port police officers/harbour authorities. Range: no need to sign it anymore after issuance, only at renewal, or - you need to stamp it once a year, or - every port. Seems that the officials do not know what is the legal status.
We did stamp it occasionally, and if queried by an overzealous police officer, just said that the time since last stamp was spent in bays on anchor.
5. Cards for electricity/water - the deposit for the card was always paid and repaid in cash. Minimal charge was ALWAYS €5.0. Usually we found pedestals with leftovers to use before using our card. Any leftover on our card we would withdraw back to our card and the card given as a gift to a boat we have liked in our vicinity.

[mikedefieslife]

I'm in Greece now.

Lefkada Marina, and while they don't employ the midnight to midnight here they do charge for water, electricity, for which you need a card and deposit. They charge for showers, for which you need a card, and of course charge for wifi.

The town quay so I'm told is around €10 and I was warned that many do charge from midnight to midnight.

I've also been made away of town quay scams where you pay the €10 for electricity yet the guy doesn't give you a card but rather turns it on with his card and pockets the €10.

On the Subject of DEKPAs I got mine last week (after being here a month) very simple process. It only needs to be stamped once per year. If you run over the year, you will need to apply and the €50 fee for a new one.