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savoir · 03-02-2011, 19:35

Maybe you could pay a skipper to deliver your boat to south coast UK before you arrive to collect it. Alternatively, you might take it there yourself as soon as you arrive in France. The 90 days restriction doesn't go away but at least the clock will not be ticking while you get the new boat sorted.

Spend 2011/12 winter in Morocco maybe ?

Hugh Walker · 03-02-2011, 21:22

Hi Karin and Scott,

I'm an Aussie going through this exact planning myself. I've just purchased an Oceanis 46 in Athens and we plan to sail in the Med full time from April until we leave for the ARC in November this year and continuing home to Sydney.

My partner is Irish so obviously has no problems but as an Aussie I'm going to enter Greece on the normal Schengen Visa (not staying in Greece for longer than 90 days) but acquire long stay visa's for Italy, France and Spain before leaving Sydney.

While I haven't got them yet I've spoken to the consulates and it's just a matter of filling in forms and possibly an interview. You will need to prove financial independence as well.

Hope this helps,

Hugh

savoir · 03-02-2011, 21:36

How can one country waive the rules of a multi country treaty ? Seems a little odd. You could do it with a long work permit visa because the person would not be classified as a tourist & Schengen only nabs tourists.

Take Italy for example. 6 month work permits are easy to get provided you can prove enough $$$ + return air ticket. In getting one of those you cease to be a tourist and avoid the Schengen clock that way. I don't know about the other countries.

Anyone know how all this works ?

Hugh Walker · 03-02-2011, 22:49

No they're not working visa's, the Italian visa I've been advised on is called an "Elective residence visa" and the French is called "Long Stay Visitor visa". I haven't enquired with Spain yet. I think you are right though that in you are not a tourist as such but rather a temporary resident and this is why the Schengen rules do not apply.

The French consulate in Canberra, Australia has this webpage Long Stay Visitor visa - La France en Australie

beneteau-500 · 04-02-2011, 01:45

well i have never had to apply for visa extensions and i have spent more than 90 days in the schengen countries goboating is spot in regards to rules and regulations to time allowed over all but i have found nearly all European countries will allow aussies 90 days with out incurring penalties

savoir · 04-02-2011, 02:36

Well isn't all this stuff interesting ? I did not know this kind of visa even existed. I still say it deprives the Schengen rules of all meaning and function but WTF I'll play along.

It means that a non EU citizen can get a 6 month visa in each of France, Spain and Italy and so use up all of the boat's VAT time allowance. Then you head for Morocco, Croatia or Turkey.

The down side is you probably can't enter Poland or Austria or whatever but if you want to stick with the boat that's hardly a drama.

Works for me.

goboatingnow · 04-02-2011, 03:03

Local visas existed before the Schengen agreement and some continue to exist, which is why the two rules sets

in Italy the elective residence visa is for people intending to take up permanence residence, eventually , theres a list of citeria as long as your arm. Its not n any form or shape a tourist visa and most people will not meet the eligibility citeria ( for example you have to show you have access to a house in italy).

France long stay visa, also requires similar rules, financial proof that you can support yourself for the full duration of the stay, housing in france etc. They are not easy to get as a typical cruiser.

In Spain, there are several types of long stay visas, one for example is the "Non-lucrative Visa for Spain" again theres a list of citeria as long as your arm including in some cases having upto 75,000 dollars in disposable income.

All these visas predate Schengen and are NOT tourist visas, Note that in some cases these make you a tax resident of the country and hence things like VAT , matriculation tax etc fall due on your boat and other assets, ( not to mention the requirement in some cases to meet the local boating rules, boat registration and compulsory boat licensing!!!)

None of these visas are really suitable to extend or get around the 90 day tourist visa and need to be entered for carefully and with your eyes wide open.

Quote:

Well isn't all this stuff interesting ? I did not know this kind of visa even existed. I still say it deprives the Schengen rules of all meaning and function but WTF I'll play along.

No its doesnt, there are not tourist visas, are not straightforward to get and can have tax implications, they can all make you a " tax resident" of the country.

Quote:

It means that a non EU citizen can get a 6 month visa in each of France, Spain and Italy and so use up all of the boat's VAT time allowance. Then you head for Morocco, Croatia or Turkey.

No you cant , you become in most cases a resident of teh country under EU laws VAT is immediately due, there are some reliefs under the Transfer of Residence£ EU wide rules, but this is tax lawyer stuff and complicated and assumes you have a home in the country etc.

Quote:

but i have found nearly all European countries will allow aussies 90 days with out incurring penalties

I dont know when you were last in the Schengen area, but this statement is not blanket true. Italy Greece and Germany were enaged in a severe clampdown on overstayers in recent years. Spain has been lax, but thats changing with the recession. As I said in my original post , if your a white anglo saxon type there is a bit of discretion, but I'd heed MarkJ postsing on this. One run in with the authorities and you aint entering any EU country again.

Long stay visas just simply are not suitable for cruisers.

Dave

savoir · 04-02-2011, 03:08

Panadol anyone ?

Hugh Walker · 16-02-2011, 16:17

A quick update to this thread on VISA's for Aussies.

Italy
I had my ELECTIVE RESIDENCE VISA interview this morning at the Italian consulate in Sydney and it all came quickly unravelled once it became clear I could not provide a fixed residential address

The second solution was that I talk to the Police in Italy and ask for an extension, this was advice was then subsequently withdrawn also

Spain
Advice was to speak to local Police and ask for an extension.

Greece
Advice was to speak to local Police and ask for an extension.

France
I have an interview booked for early March but I'm not that hopefully now.

Basically is would appear that unless we find some obliging officials then 90 days is it. We're also doing the ARC in November and Spain is the obvious last port of call, I guess we'll just have to be in Spain before my 90 days are up and then hope and pray for an extension.

savoir · 16-02-2011, 16:32

Perhaps you could prepay marina fees and produce the receipts.

Dragon Lady · 16-02-2011, 21:37

Isn't this amazing when you think of all the criminals who have evaded Australian justice over the years hiding in the EU, but a law abiding citizen can't stay longer than 90 days.
Would it be easier to fly out then re enter and get another 90 days?
Or isn't that allowed?
The Italian officials should be easy to deal with in Italy you just need to negotiate a price.

savoir · 16-02-2011, 21:55

You could always park the boat somewhere and go rent the proverbial villa in Tuscany. That would work.

nonam · 16-02-2011, 23:20

Obviously European governments dont like Australians and dont want them to visit.

Serendipity129 · 17-02-2011, 03:49

Guys, many thanks to you all. Bit exciting that my first post got this far, I'll aim for easier questions next time.

It is really disappointing that as aussies were not necessarily welcome regardless of how many Euros we could contribute to their relative economies, or how stongly we have and continue to support NATO etc.

I have kept enquiring but I cant find anyway around the schengen 90/180 criteria and I think you would be brave to risk a default in these post 9/11 times.

Turkey sounds like it's very intersted in cruisers and their cash and from what I hear sounds like a fantastic place to be. More money for the Turkish economy from Serendipity.

Many thanks to you all, any additional "soultions" will be appreciated if and when.