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Old 17-01-2018, 16:54   #1
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Long stay visa help? Spain? France?

Hi all,

we are taking off end of May to meet the boat we've purchased in Greece. Being non-EU, USA citizens, we are bound by 90 out of 180 Schengen rules. We are planning to move up the western med (all Schengen) and around to the Canaries for November for the ARC leaving November 25th. That is a LOOONG time to be dodging in/out Schengen.

We are trying to find out about visas for 1. Spain, 2. France since we will be spending a good bit of time traveling with our boys inland in those countries (Italy, as well) that will allow for 90+ days in a Schengen territory to extend the time through.

Does anyone have any experience with this, contacts, information that you could pass along?

Looking forward to hearing back and hopefully run into a few of you along the path!

Thank you!

Andrea (Mike, Jake and Ryan) :-)
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Old 18-01-2018, 01:20   #2
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Re: Long stay visa help? Spain? France?

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Originally Posted by fieldtrip400 View Post
Hi all,

we are taking off end of May to meet the boat we've purchased in Greece. Being non-EU, USA citizens, we are bound by 90 out of 180 Schengen rules. We are planning to move up the western med (all Schengen) and around to the Canaries for November for the ARC leaving November 25th. That is a LOOONG time to be dodging in/out Schengen.

We are trying to find out about visas for 1. Spain, 2. France since we will be spending a good bit of time traveling with our boys inland in those countries (Italy, as well) that will allow for 90+ days in a Schengen territory to extend the time through.

Does anyone have any experience with this, contacts, information that you could pass along?

Looking forward to hearing back and hopefully run into a few of you along the path!

Thank you!

Andrea (Mike, Jake and Ryan) :-)
Many people would be interested and I do believe this was discussed on the forum several times.
I have asked the Greek consul in Israel and he replied that for a visa there is a need of 'Special Circumstances', for example he gave me a property ownership in Greece or special skills not available in Greece.
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Old 18-01-2018, 02:07   #3
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Re: Long stay visa help? Spain? France?

I think, because you are non-Schengen citizen every single entry in country triggers your 3 month accepted Visa-free stay for this particular country. So if you leave one country (Greece) after 3 month you can enter France for another 3 months, then Spain for 3 months etc. Each country is a separate entity and will stamp your passport on entry. You are sailing and have to report to port of entry when crossing borders anyway, so it should not be a problem I guess.

You can also make an excursion to a non-Schengen country in between (Malta, Gibraltar, Turkey etc.) and re-enter the EU, but I do not think it would be necessary. It is more important for the boat.
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Old 18-01-2018, 02:35   #4
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Re: Long stay visa help? Spain? France?

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I think, because you are non-Schengen citizen every single entry in country triggers your 3 month accepted Visa-free stay for this particular country. So if you leave one country (Greece) after 3 month you can enter France for another 3 months, then Spain for 3 months etc. Each country is a separate entity and will stamp your passport on entry. You are sailing and have to report to port of entry when crossing borders anyway, so it should not be a problem I guess.

You can also make an excursion to a non-Schengen country in between (Malta, Gibraltar, Turkey etc.) and re-enter the EU, but I do not think it would be necessary. It is more important for the boat.
Completely not correct...
Schengen is one entity for all members.
The visa is not for 3 months. It is for 90d out of ANY 180.
Visit to a non-Schengen country, just adds non-Schengen days to your itinerary. Once you come back the count starts continues, and the official will check 180d back to see if the quota is still open.
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Old 18-01-2018, 03:25   #5
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I think, because you are non-Schengen citizen every single entry in country triggers your 3 month accepted Visa-free stay for this particular country. So if you leave one country (Greece) after 3 month you can enter France for another 3 months, then Spain for 3 months etc. Each country is a separate entity and will stamp your passport on entry. You are sailing and have to report to port of entry when crossing borders anyway, so it should not be a problem I guess.

You can also make an excursion to a non-Schengen country in between (Malta, Gibraltar, Turkey etc.) and re-enter the EU, but I do not think it would be necessary. It is more important for the boat.
That was pre Schengen.. nowadays its 'Open Borders' internally and a single border around the Schengen Zone.
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Old 18-01-2018, 11:38   #6
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Re: Long stay visa help? Spain? France?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldtrip400 View Post
Hi all,

we are taking off end of May to meet the boat we've purchased in Greece. Being non-EU, USA citizens, we are bound by 90 out of 180 Schengen rules. We are planning to move up the western med (all Schengen) and around to the Canaries for November for the ARC leaving November 25th. That is a LOOONG time to be dodging in/out Schengen.

We are trying to find out about visas for 1. Spain, 2. France since we will be spending a good bit of time traveling with our boys inland in those countries (Italy, as well) that will allow for 90+ days in a Schengen territory to extend the time through.

Does anyone have any experience with this, contacts, information that you could pass along?

Looking forward to hearing back and hopefully run into a few of you along the path!

Thank you!

Andrea (Mike, Jake and Ryan) :-)
The US has a bi-lateral treaty with France. Which means that you have 90 days free time there that will not count against you and will reset your clock. Other places such as Gib don't count either. However, if you decided to apply for a VISA, do it before you leave or you may find you'll have to fly back to the States.

Maje
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Old 18-01-2018, 11:50   #7
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Re: Long stay visa help? Spain? France?

Thanks all--

Boatman61,

You must see a lot doing deliveries....if we couldn't log a day out of Schengen from May 31st, that would put us parked in Gibraltor or something like that from August 15th through November, saving 2 weeks for the Arc takeoff from the canaries (as they are Schengen territory.) I am wondering what the true reality is of marinas/ports that are not likely to check us in immigration-wise, but will be okay boat-wise (and do immigration authorities check transit logs to see if in fact you have checked in log-wise to a greek island, but not immigration for crew?) in order to lengthen so-called non_schengen time (as if 12nm out.) I've heard that in many places customs may board, but nothing will happen with immigration. I've also heard if we are going in for provisions and staying overnight always on our boat at anchor, mooring or even a slip we can be allowed not to check in with the police for immigration stamps. So, I'm looking for anyone out there with experience, which marinas worked best, least expensive (we are having a heck of a time figuring out any kind of budget for mooring fees or if we can even get moorings, best way to find info on spots a few weeks out from each location, etc.) Have homeschooling, boat outfitting from a very long distance, etc. on my mind, as well, including clearing out our house and putting it up for rent....
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Old 18-01-2018, 11:53   #8
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Re: Long stay visa help? Spain? France?

Have the same question and researched it until I'm blue in the face. Basically I found two options.

In and out of Schengen to stay in the 90 days per 180 rule. Gibraltar is out. UK and Ireland are out. Otherwise you have to go to N Africa or the eastern Med.

Apply for a long stay visa for some countries. Have researched several; Spain, France, Portugal, Italy, Germany. All seem to have gotchas and glitches that make a long stay tourist visa very difficult. Not impossible but very difficult. Most require proof of finances, address where you will be living and similar. I would start contacting specific embassies in the US, ask questions and jump through some hoops.

By the way, even if you do this you might run into a problem proving it. I have heard many, many stories of customs officials that did not understand the rules and had problems adding up days in and out of Schengen even without the complication of a long stay visa in one of the Schengen countries. You also have the problem of proving when you were in that country and how many days were exempt from the Schengen count.

If you use the forum search and enter Schengen you will find several previous, long discussions on the issue.
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Old 18-01-2018, 11:57   #9
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Re: Long stay visa help? Spain? France?

maje,

THAT would change everything!!!! I am told I need to have that in writing to show to officials as not all are up on the laws and do different things. I've been looking for that info, but have not found any link showing the bilateral treaty and 90 days in France for sure to prove at each marina/port. Do you know where to find that?

Also, any ideas of fairly inexpensive slips to find well in advance and reserve so that we could travel inland for 2 to 3 weeks leaving the boat safely in france (not costing 2 arms, legs, etc.?? ha ha) Or the best way to locate those slips/marinas along the way...app, subscription, something we saw at one time with anchors on each location....please forgive me for being so green!
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Old 18-01-2018, 12:19   #10
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Re: Long stay visa help? Spain? France?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldtrip400 View Post
Hi all,

we are taking off end of May to meet the boat we've purchased in Greece. Being non-EU, USA citizens, we are bound by 90 out of 180 Schengen rules. We are planning to move up the western med (all Schengen) and around to the Canaries for November for the ARC leaving November 25th. That is a LOOONG time to be dodging in/out Schengen.

We are trying to find out about visas for 1. Spain, 2. France since we will be spending a good bit of time traveling with our boys inland in those countries (Italy, as well) that will allow for 90+ days in a Schengen territory to extend the time through.

Does anyone have any experience with this, contacts, information that you could pass along?

Looking forward to hearing back and hopefully run into a few of you along the path!

Thank you!

Andrea (Mike, Jake and Ryan) :-)
Each Schengen country and each port in each Schengen country seems to have a different interpretation of Schengen.
Be prepared to smile and talk pleasantly....
Countries that are good to break up Schengen are Albania which is a fabulous country to visit and spend time. Tunisia is also a wonderful place to visit and of course Turkey.
Remembering the cruising season is about 6 months I would document 3 months in Greece. You will enjoy every part of this diverse region. Spend some time in Albania and cruise through Spain Italy Sardinia Sicily and you won't have too much trouble.
Albania will restart your VAT clock
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Old 18-01-2018, 12:46   #11
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Re: Long stay visa help? Spain? France?

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Have the same question and researched it until I'm blue in the face. Basically I found two options.

In and out of Schengen to stay in the 90 days per 180 rule. Gibraltar is out. UK and Ireland are out. Otherwise you have to go to N Africa or the eastern Med.

Apply for a long stay visa for some countries. Have researched several; Spain, France, Portugal, Italy, Germany. All seem to have gotchas and glitches that make a long stay tourist visa very difficult. Not impossible but very difficult. Most require proof of finances, address where you will be living and similar. I would start contacting specific embassies in the US, ask questions and jump through some hoops.

By the way, even if you do this you might run into a problem proving it. I have heard many, many stories of customs officials that did not understand the rules and had problems adding up days in and out of Schengen even without the complication of a long stay visa in one of the Schengen countries. You also have the problem of proving when you were in that country and how many days were exempt from the Schengen count.

If you use the forum search and enter Schengen you will find several previous, long discussions on the issue.
You might be wrong about UK. and Ireland. Run into this every year as we're in either Ireland or UK for about 3 weeks more than the 90 days. As Far as Irish were concerned time spent in UK resets the clock and vice versa in the UK. The other option is to go into the Garda in Ireland and get an extension. The only problem with that was finding a Garda Immigration Officer. Mostly what we gotfor an answer from either was don't worry about! So after making a short answer Long. You might want to go into a custom's/Immigration Office where ever you are when your 1/2 way through your time and try and get the extension.
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Old 18-01-2018, 13:01   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldtrip400 View Post
Thanks all--

Boatman61,

You must see a lot doing deliveries....if we couldn't log a day out of Schengen from May 31st, that would put us parked in Gibraltor or something like that from August 15th through November, saving 2 weeks for the Arc takeoff from the canaries (as they are Schengen territory.) I am wondering what the true reality is of marinas/ports that are not likely to check us in immigration-wise, but will be okay boat-wise (and do immigration authorities check transit logs to see if in fact you have checked in log-wise to a greek island, but not immigration for crew?) in order to lengthen so-called non_schengen time (as if 12nm out.) I've heard that in many places customs may board, but nothing will happen with immigration. I've also heard if we are going in for provisions and staying overnight always on our boat at anchor, mooring or even a slip we can be allowed not to check in with the police for immigration stamps. So, I'm looking for anyone out there with experience, which marinas worked best, least expensive (we are having a heck of a time figuring out any kind of budget for mooring fees or if we can even get moorings, best way to find info on spots a few weeks out from each location, etc.) Have homeschooling, boat outfitting from a very long distance, etc. on my mind, as well, including clearing out our house and putting it up for rent....
Its a tough one for me.. akin to my time spent in the US with the 90 day rule and the difficulty getting an extension.
Here's one suggestion that may.. or may not work..
You want to do a fair bit of inland travelling so from that I take it your not short of a bob or two..
Spend 2.5 months exploring a few Greek islands.. a dash of Italy on the way to France.. find a central marina close to the regions you want to visit then do your travelling by train (very good in France) on a TVG deal for touring.
Once your 2.5mths is up head for Cueta or Tangiers and get a berth there then get a flight to Madrid and again do your travelling around..
Its a different point of entry which might get you past the central computer system that operates from every marina in the Schengen Zone.. old times they dealt with you separately.. marina, customs and immigration.. today its all done when you book into the marina and entered into a central data base.
If there's a query you just go 'Opp's.. Sorry..!!!'
Unlikely they will boot you out and anyway you've a return ticket so whats the big deal for them.. your a tourist.
Enquire about a multiple entry visa to the country of most interest/time you want to spend and work around that.
Sorry if its a ramble but.. hopefully they are as hot as your Dept of Homeland Security.. you won't have a problem..
I'd not worry about the Canaries if your taking part in the ARC.. you should be fine with that.
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Old 18-01-2018, 13:52   #13
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Re: Long stay visa help? Spain? France?

I know I've seen some of the rules online. You might try searching for "long term visa [COUNTRY]" to see if you can find official ones for each. Or, just contact the tourism board or an embassy for each. Always best to get these things directly, especially as rules can change January 1st or other dates.

You may find some subtle gotchas, like requiring that you provide your own medical insurance. If you are "writing a book" about the place, you may qualify as a self-employed author. There are all sorts of niches, but you are relying on the discretion of bureaucrats and it helps if you start with specific knowledge of their rules.
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Old 18-01-2018, 16:00   #14
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Re: Long stay visa help? Spain? France?

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Originally Posted by Kalinka1 View Post
You might be wrong about UK. and Ireland. Run into this every year as we're in either Ireland or UK for about 3 weeks more than the 90 days. As Far as Irish were concerned time spent in UK resets the clock and vice versa in the UK. The other option is to go into the Garda in Ireland and get an extension. The only problem with that was finding a Garda Immigration Officer. Mostly what we gotfor an answer from either was don't worry about! So after making a short answer Long. You might want to go into a custom's/Immigration Office where ever you are when your 1/2 way through your time and try and get the extension.
UK and Ireland do have stay limits but they are specific to them and not Schengen. They are definitely not part of the Schengen countries unless something changed in the last couple of months. According to the websites I researched the Schengen countries are: Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland.

So, time in Ireland or the UK does not count against your 90 Schengen days.
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Old 18-01-2018, 16:30   #15
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Shame they're so far from the Med.. and not on the 'to tour' list.
Gibraltar is not in Schengen so you could kill time there instead of Morocco.. still think the multiple entry visa's are worth a look.. find out the conditions.
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