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Old 22-01-2014, 04:32   #16
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Re: Itinerary Suggestions for Sailing Med

Hello

I think I can be of some help regarding Your Greek Islands itinerary, but please, let me know some details:

  1. What will be starting point? Bodrum? Or do You consider any close to Greek Island as a meeting point with Your friends?
  2. What are Your ideas for the 4 week period without the friends?
  3. What should be the place to leave Your friends after initial 2 weeks? (Demands regarding flight connections)
  4. What is Your plan for 4 weeks without friends?
  5. What should be the place to pick up Your friends after 4 weeks break? (demands regarding flight connections)
  6. What should be the finishing point?
Best regards

Tomasz
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Old 22-01-2014, 04:44   #17
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pirate Re: Itinerary Suggestions for Sailing Med

And now for something completely different...
W Corsica
W Sardinia
S Sicily
Corinth Canal
Athens
Greek Islands
Bodrun

Regarding the delivery skipper.. if he's on a fixed price he'll want to run hard and fast... if its a day rate he won't care..
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Old 22-01-2014, 06:06   #18
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Re: Itinerary Suggestions for Sailing Med

The 4 weeks includes the 1200 miles to get there? That won't leave as much time for sightseeing as you might think.

The big problem with planning this kind of thing in the Med is, as others have suggested, the fluky winds and weather. You will simply have to have a certain amount of flexibility in your schedule so you can sail and make miles when the wind is good, and stop and rest and provision when there is no wind or, when it's stormy.

There are basically two ways to do this kind of trip: Either try to get all the big miles done at once or in a small number of long passages, or do one longish day sail and then one day off (or two off in really special places) and gradually reach your destination.

I have done four month-long summer cruises in the English Channel and Bay of Biscay, and we typically cover 1000 miles or so during the month, so not dissimilar to what you're doing (other than the fact that we have reliable, good sailing wind in these parts). We have been experimenting with different regimes and I'm still not quite satisfied. We used to sail 50 to 100 miles one day, then take a day to see the place we'd arrived, or two in special places. Last year we tried to make longer passages and then stay longer in a fewer number of places -- it was better -- and the lesson is that trying to see too many places in too short of a time will kill the enjoyment. This year -- if we stay in the Bay of Biscay -- we might just start with one long non-stop passage to La Coruna from the Solent, and then hang out in the Rias for a couple of weeks before making one long non-stop passage back.


But I guess the main thing I would tell you is that a month is not all that long to make 1200 miles, especially in the Med. If I were you, I guess I would probably choose a series of ports all 50 -- 100 miles apart from beginning to end of your route. Then I would tailor the passages to the weather -- if, for example, the wind was great when I left, I would just sail non-stop to the Aegean, and then dawdle in the Fetiye -- Bodrum region, where there is enough to see to last a year or two of cruising. Or if the weather is not great at departure, then I would do shorter passages along the route until I got a nice sailing wind. As others have said, there is a high percentage of calm days in the summer in the Med, and you can go crazy motoring for days on end. So you tailor your passage lengths to the wind as you go along.

I'm sure your insurance company will be happy with such a list of ports, and will not care that you skip most of them in the event.
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Old 22-01-2014, 06:28   #19
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Re: Itinerary Suggestions for Sailing Med

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Miss View Post

The second itinerary suggestions I am looking forward relates to planning a 2 week trip in Greece and then another 2 weeks either in Greece or Turkey with our best friends. My girlfriend is a "planner extraordinaire" and has asked me for a route itinerary for the 2 x 2 week periods in mid May and last two weeks of June 2015 so she can start planning . Our friends will spend 2 wks on 4 wks away and 2 wks before coming back to Australia.

Quite advanced preplanning
More than a year ahead
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Old 22-01-2014, 14:57   #20
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Re: Itinerary Suggestions for Sailing Med

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Originally Posted by The Miss View Post
Pantaenius is the insurance company we are looking at and who have asked for itinerary.
Hi 'The Miss'

This is strange, as you know we're also working with Pantaenius and they haven't asked us for an itinerary. We got a quote (good price as well) for cover of the whole Med.

The guy I talked to said they insure by area. I.e. you get the Med, or you don't.

The person I spoke to was Adam Brown. His email address is this if that helps:
abrown@pantaenius.com

Regards,
Simon
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Old 22-01-2014, 15:24   #21
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Re: Itinerary Suggestions for Sailing Med

Quote:
Originally Posted by simonpickard View Post
Hi 'The Miss'

This is strange, as you know we're also working with Pantaenius and they haven't asked us for an itinerary. We got a quote (good price as well) for cover of the whole Med.

The guy I talked to said they insure by area. I.e. you get the Med, or you don't.

The person I spoke to was Adam Brown. His email address is this if that helps:
abrown@pantaenius.com

Regards,
Simon
When I was renewing my policy last year they had separate "areas" for south coast (to Egypt) and south-east coast of Med. with exclusion zones.
May be it is corelated..?..
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Old 22-01-2014, 17:05   #22
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Re: Itinerary Suggestions for Sailing Med

Hi Miss

Im also with Panteanius and have coverage for the entire med (from Gibraltar to Bosphorus) They never asked for an intinerary. (adding the Bosphorus isnt standard but costs no more). I would check again if i were you as you dont want the hassle of dealing with them if you change plans due to weather etc.

Dockhead makes alot of sense and you should think long and hard about whether you want to sail for a few days to get somewhere and then relax and see the sights or sail everyday for smaller passages. We tried both last year and for us "less is more" ie do some longer passages and pick the best bits, spend some time there.

Your time is short so i would keep the route pretty direct - first passage straight to corsica then spend a few there - get off and see the mountains, Bonifacio not to be missed. I would skip Sardinia and head straight to Sicily personally, then around the toe of the boot and see a couple of the Ionions islands. Through the canal and time will probably be short by then but no worries - do the Aegean next year.
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Old 22-01-2014, 17:44   #23
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Re: Itinerary Suggestions for Sailing Med

Hi Tomasz,

This aspect of our trip is such a long way away but my girlfriend is the "most organised" person I know and going on a holiday without some kind of idea / itinerary is a foreign idea. I for one rarely know, so shared holidays are always a treat as its like having a personal travel agent. However now it is my time to step up to the plate and she wants to book flights etc now.

We will be starting in Greece and stay in Greece for the two weeks. The four weeks they are away we thought we could sail the boat to Turkey and then show them some of Turkish sites. It may be better to stay in Greece but I am not sure as I for one have never been to Europe nor sail a boat except on charter and that was in the Whitsunday's Australia.
[*]What will be starting point? Bodrum? Or do You consider any close to Greek Island as a meeting point with Your friends?
Starting point Greece somewhere
[*]What are Your ideas for the 4 week period without the friends?
We can relax, do necessary jobs or sail to another meeting point
[*]What should be the place to leave Your friends after initial 2 weeks?
(Demands regarding flight connections)
Much of the discussion is coming from flight bookings in and out for both times

[*]What is Your plan for 4 weeks without friends?
Option 2 - Cruise around, washing, cleaning and reading books enjoying no visitors for a while
[*]What should be the place to pick up Your friends after 4 weeks break? (demands regarding flight connections)
Advice gratefully accepted on a suggested itinerary
[*]What should be the finishing point?
Again advice gratefully accepted


Many thanks
the Miss

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Old 22-01-2014, 18:14   #24
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Re: Itinerary Suggestions for Sailing Med

The vagaries of sailing in the med totally and utterly preclude a fixed itinerary that ms missy would like.

But i did think this line is hilarious:" a holiday without some kind of idea / itinerary is a foreign idea." All overseas travel is foreign

The problem with the med is the old saying "theres either too much wind or no wind". And whoever coined that phrase got it in one.

In the greek islands the Meltemi can set its little butt down and blow 35 knots for two weeks. Or the week you need to sail 1,000 miles to pick up some goose on a cheap Ryan Airways flight theres not a breath of wind.

So you and wifey are much better off to start learning about all the islands and then make decisions as the time comes.
Basically you cant go wrong: all of the Greek islands are sensational in their own ways, all the Turkish coast is sensational for an antipidean.

One of the most amazing places I have been to on earth is totally discredited in every guide book known to man since Homer. Its Syros... The whole town is made of marble, even the roadways and pavements are marble that at home you would spend tens of thousands of dollars to do one bathroom and its lying on the bloody roadways! So if thats the place never to go to then you are pretty well assured that any place you are gunna stumble into will be gooder than you could ever expect.

So my advice is to get to know the island groups and where they are and what weather patterns you will get in summer, etc. then finalise your details close to the time.

Once last thing... I have always found the advice gets better the closer you are to the location

Mark
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Old 22-01-2014, 18:48   #25
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Re: Itinerary Suggestions for Sailing Med

Hi Mark,

I totally believe you when you say advice gets better the closer to the location and time.
I think if I had to ask one question it would be where should my girlfriend book flights for arrival and departure x 2.

I have just spent some time online looking at Syros - looks amazing to me. Maybe Mykonos is the place my friends fly in and out of...

Cheers for advice

the Miss
(I think missy is lost still...."yeah thats not what I was looking for at all." )
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Old 22-01-2014, 19:09   #26
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Re: Itinerary Suggestions for Sailing Med

Theres very few greek islands with airports. I really dont know for there at all, others will... But i thought its fly to Athens and then ferry.

As for Turkey, its important to book by fare, not by airport. I havent flown in or out, but i understand Dalaman airport near Marmaris has cheap flights because theres many English tourists.

However, Bodrum airport was, dunno if it still is, extremely expensive because no Uk tourists go there.
So practicalities may influence you decision.

If it were me I would be getting them to fly into Marmaris which is a very pretty city, and then spend a few days down to Oloudinez and Fetiheiy and then clear out and head to Rhodos.. rhodes, greek, and former location of one of the 7 Wonders of the World, the Collosus of Rhodes. No Europeans give a **** but for us to start seeing them its great!
(Yu can also see the remains of the Temple of Artemus near Ephuses, outside Selcuk. Most people think its Ephuses thats a 7 Wonder, but its not, just the temple)

Mark
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Old 22-01-2014, 23:10   #27
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Re: Itinerary Suggestions for Sailing Med

Hi 'The Miss'

Personally I think you should concentrate on getting your boat from A to B first and worry about 2015 once you get there, you'll still have a year for your planning .... just saying

I agree with 'boatman61', we did this trip in 2012.

Spend some time in the South of France and get to know your boat, although with a professional skipper this is probably fantasy. Like someone else suggested .... lose the skipper.

Then given you have a lot of miles to cover in unpredictable weather, I would probably do the east coast of Corsica & Sardinia, less scenery than the west but protected against the worst of the winds, the west coast can be a bit a mixed bag.

Across the north coast of Sicily, around 'the boot' and across to Kefalonia, where you can clear into Greece and use the Corinth Canal. It's a bit expensive but cuts a long way and some potential bad weather off your trip.

Once through the canal, you can pick your way through the Greek Islands to Kos in day sails, where you can clear out of Greece and only 10 nm from Bodrum.

We have our boat in Marmaris at the moment, we are also Australian (with an Australian registered boat), used Panteaneus for insurance for the last 3 years and never been asked for an itinerary. Have you had boat insurance before? Any claims? Something must have spooked them!

Cheers
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Old 23-01-2014, 00:40   #28
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Re: Itinerary Suggestions for Sailing Med

I also have Panteaneus and never heard of such a thing as an itinerary.

I wonder if the itinerary request is somehow related to this trip being a "delivery" to the boat show? My insurance is through their Swedish office and maybe you Panteaneus office has different rules?

Good luck with your planners itinerary. You will need luck to meet it, whatever it is

Three summers ago I had 2 friends joining me in the middle of my 6 week Aegean cruise. The plan that worked well for me was to get them to book their flights to Athens in advance and that's it. A few days before they were due to arrive, we agreed on meeting in Kos because I knew I had plenty of time to get there and we always planned that we will head closer to Athens and they will depart from an island with good ferry connections, which we did.

Whilst we were never held up in port because to strong winds, the wind did require us revise our island hopping plans to keep it more practical.
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Old 23-01-2014, 03:19   #29
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Re: Itinerary Suggestions for Sailing Med

We've been cruising a couple of years now, mostly with friends aboard. We've found it easiest to name a starting and end point for guests , with lots of flexibility built in for weather and just liking a place and wanting to stay longer. We make it really clear to guests that safety comes first and that the weather calls the shots - it helps loosen them up in term of itinerary too. We always ask people we see what their favourite anchorage has been, and it's helped us find great places not in the books.

I agree with stay a couple of nights rather than going too fast. Our first year we were way too ambitious and it was exhausting! (Puerto Rico Elba Genoa corsica Sardinia Sicily Italy boot to the Ionian phew). Now we cruise slower, build in stops, and relax more. Working out some bolt holes is good too - always a plan B and a place to hunker down.
Blogs on sailblogs are quite good for finding itineraries and places. Ours is Murihiku if it's any help.

Cheers
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Old 29-01-2014, 05:57   #30
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Re: Itinerary Suggestions for Sailing Med

Hi,

sent You some suggestions by PMs

Best regards

Tomasz
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