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Old 17-12-2011, 06:06   #91
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

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Yes, it meant to be a property tax but the funny thing about it is that the Italian government want to charge it not only to their tax payers (citizens) but to all cruising boats that happen to pass on their waters

Manuel
What choice do they have really?

Would it be fair to exempt a German who keeps his boat year round in Italy? If they exempt cruisers who are passing through, where do you draw the line on just passing through?

If you are just holidaying in Italy, it's not really going to cost you much. My yacht would cost Ä8 per day and over a 4 week holiday that is Ä224.

When I look at what I spent over a similar period in Greece last summer on food, drinks and stuff that is really just a drop in the ocean.

Sure the $500 a month crowd would be killed, but then again visiting Italy anyway would kill their budget.

Some people will shorten their visits, some will move the yachts and the rest will probably grin and bare with it and try to avoid the tax.
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Old 17-12-2011, 07:36   #92
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

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What choice do they have really?

Would it be fair to exempt a German who keeps his boat year round in Italy? If they exempt cruisers who are passing through, where do you draw the line on just passing through?

If you are just holidaying in Italy, it's not really going to cost you much. My yacht would cost €8 per day and over a 4 week holiday that is €224.

....
If EC permits them to do this the results will be obvious: You will get a similar tax in all the countries that have nice cruising grounds and that can benefit from that: Spain, France, Portugal, Greece will also have a luxury tax for visiting boats (as to their own boats).

You say that 224€ is not much but that will be enough for about 4 or 5 days at some marinas and about 10 days on a mooring buoy (and there a service is provided). And if all those countries have tax why not raise its value 2 or 3 times? There are not really an alternative in what regards sunny days with hot water in Europe and why should not you not pay the Sun and the hot water?

Manuel
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Old 17-12-2011, 08:56   #93
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

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If EC permits them to do this the results will be obvious: You will get a similar tax in all the countries that have nice cruising grounds and that can benefit from that: Spain, France, Portugal, Greece will also have a luxury tax for visiting boats (as to their own boats).

You say that 224€ is not much but that will be enough for about 4 or 5 days at some marinas and about 10 days on a mooring buoy (and there a service is provided). And if all those countries have tax why not raise its value 2 or 3 times? There are not really an alternative in what regards sunny days with hot water in Europe and why should not you not pay the Sun and the hot water?

Manuel
Are you suggesting that Northern Europe (the bits on your chart marked "solvent" ) is not a nice place to cruise?

I don't like paying (for anything!) either - but am also not after a free lunch.....probably some cultural differences at play on that last one........
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Old 17-12-2011, 18:06   #94
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

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So what's the better solution, every boat in Italy or visits it has to undergo a valuation survey? or perhaps boat owners should be exempt from paying tax because they are special or hard done by? Get real
Keep y' hat on pal; I actually proffered the notion that us pleasure boat owners have buckley's of convincing anyone that we are hard done by - even when we have a good case. (Maybe I should have found an irony smilie to aid comprehension.)

And, as an example of a good case against a particular fee, I referred to our local registration fees which are damaging the local heritage boat sector. A simple point, simply made (I thought )

But you ask for a better solution for Italy's proposed tax? I suggest a flat tax, regardless of length or value for a specified time (eg, 3 months).

After all, a flat tax is exactly what a visa's cost is and everybody seems to accept payment for visas for a limited time visit.
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Old 24-12-2011, 01:38   #95
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

According to some German speaking sailing forums:

It became law yesterday.

(My boot will be transported on land to the Baltic in April, all arangements made already for this.)
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Old 24-12-2011, 07:05   #96
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

As far as I know, there is no (direct) taxation on boats visiting France. You pay for the use of their inland waterways. What Spain will do is unfamiliar to me. It will be another discouragement to visit Spain.
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Old 24-12-2011, 07:20   #97
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

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As far as I know, there is no (direct) taxation on boats visiting France. You pay for the use of their inland waterways. What Spain will do is unfamiliar to me. It will be another discouragement to visit Spain.
But I think the bits of SE France that are in easy reach of Italy (Cannes / Monaco etc) are already hideously expensive! (for both residents and visitors). So an Italian would probably be better off paying the new tax and staying in Italy, instead of seeking to relocate to France.

FWIW have only been to that part of France once, albeit only from land - I found it kinda dull and pretty characterless (as well as expensive). In the 50's was probably very different...............But it could be that I just didn't get invited to the right parties
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Old 24-12-2011, 09:20   #98
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

Yep, the politicians here are no different from over there. Their answer is to raise fees and taxes, not to cut spending as needs to happen. Of course, the folks who depend on the gov to give them everything would hang 'em high if they tried that. So whats a poor boater to do? Apply for government boat subsidies? Don't us poor boat addicts deserve some guv luv?

Kevin
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Old 27-12-2011, 12:17   #99
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

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But I think the bits of SE France that are in easy reach of Italy (Cannes / Monaco etc) are already hideously expensive! (for both residents and visitors). So an Italian would probably be better off paying the new tax and staying in Italy, instead of seeking to relocate to France.

FWIW have only been to that part of France once, albeit only from land - I found it kinda dull and pretty characterless (as well as expensive). In the 50's was probably very different...............But it could be that I just didn't get invited to the right parties
Did I read this right? France was "dull and characterless" in the 50's? Errrr, yep you are probably right, had something to do with the war maybe

We spent several months on the South of France this year and loved it. Provence is anything but dull and characterless. As well as the coast there are are fabulous villages not far inland like St Paul de Vence, Mougin, Valbonne etc.

Also it is only "hideously expensive" if you are spending the US Peso, if you are spending the AUD it is not expensive at all (except marinas).

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Old 27-12-2011, 13:04   #100
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

That area has changed over the last 40 years (Schengen and foreign politics to blame) but there are still characteristic places, although crowded in July & August.

This is the spot where I will finally reside ......
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Old 27-12-2011, 13:34   #101
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

looks like canal sete' a' rhone aigue morts or sete ?great spot to winter,as is cap d' agde
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Old 27-12-2011, 13:38   #102
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

Yes Atoll, 1st pic is canal of Gros du Roi to Aigues Mortes, the other two are Aigues Mortes. My destination after Scoltland.
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Old 27-12-2011, 13:45   #103
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

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Yes Atoll, 1st pic is canal of Gros du Roi to Aigues Mortes, the other two are Aigues Mortes. My destination after Scoltland.
i spent a winter there,and went as far up as avignon,very picturesque and the price is right! ie free if you can pull into the bank,my kind of cruising....
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Old 27-12-2011, 14:21   #104
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

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Did I read this right? France was "dull and characterless" in the 50's? Errrr, yep you are probably right, had something to do with the war maybe

We spent several months on the South of France this year and loved it. Provence is anything but dull and characterless. As well as the coast there are are fabulous villages not far inland like St Paul de Vence, Mougin, Valbonne etc.

Also it is only "hideously expensive" if you are spending the US Peso, if you are spending the AUD it is not expensive at all (except marinas).

Brownie
I wasn't very clear - was principally talking about the so called glamorous parts of SE France, Monaco / Cannes / Nice (the bits near Italy) - which made there names as "the" places to be in 50's and 60's for Movie Stars (Brigitte Bardot etc) and the jet set (that's a term one doesn't hear much anymore!).....my experiance was that not much different from the Spanish Costas , in both looks and atmosphere.....maybe I was simply expecting too much?

I will admit that probably very different places when large scale events are on, Grand Prix, Film Festival, Mud wrestling? .......and I didn't get to the right parties .

And I also didn't stay for months - everywhere provides a different experiance the longer one stays somewhere (IME the better)......I agree that inland France (pretty much anywhere?) is a very different experiance to many places on the coast - and to my tastes better if you enjoy relaxing in pleasant and slower paced surroundings and people..........If I want crazy assed 24/7 partying, then (for me) there are easier and more fun countries to visit .....but France overall hard to beat........for being France .

Anyway, Vive La Difference! (to Milton Keynes ).
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Old 27-12-2011, 18:35   #105
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I wasn't very clear - was principally talking about the so called glamorous parts of SE France, Monaco / Cannes / Nice (the bits near Italy) - which made there names as "the" places to be in 50's and 60's for Movie Stars (Brigitte Bardot etc) and the jet set (that's a term one doesn't hear much anymore!).....my experiance was that not much different from the Spanish Costas , in both looks and atmosphere.....maybe I was simply expecting too much?

I will admit that probably very different places when large scale events are on, Grand Prix, Film Festival, Mud wrestling? .......and I didn't get to the right parties .

And I also didn't stay for months - everywhere provides a different experiance the longer one stays somewhere (IME the better)......I agree that inland France (pretty much anywhere?) is a very different experiance to many places on the coast - and to my tastes better if you enjoy relaxing in pleasant and slower paced surroundings and people..........If I want crazy assed 24/7 partying, then (for me) there are easier and more fun countries to visit .....but France overall hard to beat........for being France .

Anyway, Vive La Difference! (to Milton Keynes ).
As someone who kept a boat for several years near nice until last year, I couldn't disagree with you more. The Cote d,azure is simply stunning , the anchorages magnificent and on a 8 metre boat I could stay in Cannes, nice, st. Jean, beau lieu for 8-14 euros a night everything included. Food is very reasonable and low cost superb restaurants are everywhere. Yes it's a super yacht paradise, but the French ensure the ordinary man in the street is looked after.

Dave
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