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Old 08-12-2011, 14:23   #31
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

wonder if you could pay the tax by making extra beer purchases, the country gets the money and you get the beer
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Old 08-12-2011, 14:42   #32
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

When its all said and done these European Countries are going to need revenue. I think it will be realized that you aren't going to get much by taxing a boat 8 Euros a day...You aregoing to get it from having them spend 50-100 Euros a day in restaurants and purchases. Discouraging travelers when they have a lot of choices in the Med will not work.
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Old 08-12-2011, 15:13   #33
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

It is my perception that in many of the European countries currently suffering economic difficulties - i.e. Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy (but especially Greece), avoiding paying tax is a national pastime. If the general populace make a point of avoiding paing tax, to the tune of tens of billions of Euro per annum, it seems a little bit misguided to be gouging transients? Kinda counting the pennies, while the dollars go AWOL...
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Old 08-12-2011, 15:16   #34
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

I will also just add that, while visiting Greece, Spain, Portugal earlier in the year, I spoke to a lot of local people who, as a rule said that the areas of the courntry where tourism was a big part of the local economy wee doing ok, because tourists were still visiting, and the tourist dollar was supporting the local economy, but that it was areas that didn't have tourism that were really suffering. These new taxes are most likely to drive tourists away... pretty smart thinking!
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Old 08-12-2011, 15:27   #35
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

Unfortunately, when politicians impose new taxes, they fail to account for changes in human behavior.

The US luxury tax not only crushed sales, it ran US boat companies out of business. Good and bad.

A classic example of this is a few years ago, the Great State of Texas decided to add an additional $1 tax to cigarettes (no, I'm not a smoker). Interestingly, tax revenues went DOWN instead of up. They changed habits. People bought them online, mail order, from neighboring states or Mexico, or got friends to get them for them in other states or from military commissaries. You can't just do the simple math - at some point, taxes WILL change habits.
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Old 08-12-2011, 15:45   #36
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

They tried the luxury tax here and put half the boat building shops out of business...
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Old 08-12-2011, 16:15   #37
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

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Originally Posted by PamlicoTraveler View Post
Discouraging travelers when they have a lot of choices in the Med will not work.
But being in a Union means neighbouring countries can co-ordinate policies - obviously there will be uncovered gaps a boat can go to, but added cost and complication to do so.

Tourism wise, visiting boats will be SFA% of the whole tourist market, can't base any tax decisions on that. Visitors will probably pay more (new) tax onshore as (where possible) tax increases are passed onto customers

......but at the end of the day, taxing folk who have money ........rather than those who don't is the more sensible option - especially in countries where political leaders swinging from a lamppost is in living memory........

and if you have a large enough boat that can travel extensively / spends extended time in Italy on vacation then you are above average in wealth.
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Old 08-12-2011, 23:37   #38
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

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Seems quite fair to me ..........At 9.09 Metres .
x2, hehe!
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Old 11-12-2011, 07:56   #39
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

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x2, hehe!
Since the marinas will be empty seems like a good destination to me too, perhaps even at bargain prices

If North Africa can ever sort itself out someone will make a fortune.

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Old 12-12-2011, 11:15   #40
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

Apparently there is a meeting of the Marine Industry planned for the 16th in Rome. I know someone who is attending so if I hear anything I will update this post.

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Old 12-12-2011, 11:28   #41
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

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It will just be added to your marina bill like VAT is currently

Dave
You are guessing or you know what you are talking about?

And if you have an annual contract but have the boat out of water for maintenance for 9 months?
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Old 12-12-2011, 11:32   #42
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

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I will also just add that, while visiting Greece, Spain, Portugal earlier in the year, I spoke to a lot of local people who, as a rule said that the areas of the courntry where tourism was a big part of the local economy wee doing ok, because tourists were still visiting, and the tourist dollar was supporting the local economy, but that it was areas that didn't have tourism that were really suffering. These new taxes are most likely to drive tourists away... pretty smart thinking!
You mean the tourist euro? There are not many American tourists in Europe comparing with other Europeans
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Old 12-12-2011, 11:48   #43
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

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Lets not get too excited - whether we like it or not, there are a number of countries that charge for 'cruising permits' and this is really no different. Visiting yachters make use of their charts, bouyage system, dredging in harbours and navigable waterways and, if necessary, their coast guard. In addition, our boats add to water pollution (from our grey water) and air pollution (when our engines are operating). Why shouldn't we contribute to the cost of maintaining these services, especially in light of their current financial difficulties?

If I understand it correctly, the cost for my boat would be 8 Euro's daily, reduced by 50% as it is a sailing auxilliary. In otherwords, only 4 Euros a day - and there would be an exemption if I am having it hauled out and/or serviced; and potentially a further reduction of 40%, as she is more than 15 years old. If the 'age reduction' is in fact maintained, my daily fee would be only 2.4 euros daily!

Brad
I don't know if that tax for other EC flagged boats is possible or legal. Do you know any tax required on EC countries? I think they have tried that in Sardinia and Greece and had not succeed, not because they have failed too but because they were not allowed.

One of the basis of EC is free circulation of people. If I am not living in Italy I have the right to go there by car, airplane or boat and they can not tax me because I am already taxed in my country. However they can do that luxury tax for Italians or Italian flagged boats and that's all. I guess that they can do that for foreigners of the EC but that makes no sense and it would be a minority of boats anyway.

Spanish have also a Luxury tax but only for their boats (you pay it when you buy the boat). They cannot allow that otherwise, the French, the Spanish, the Greeks the Portuguese and all would have also the right to tax all passing boats. That's crazy, like medieval times, you have to pay a toll for passing by.
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Old 12-12-2011, 15:14   #44
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

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You are guessing or you know what you are talking about?

And if you have an annual contract but have the boat out of water for maintenance for 9 months?
1. I know what I am talking about

2. No idea, my boat is in the water. Anyway it is not urgent the tax doesn't come in until May 2012
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Old 12-12-2011, 15:28   #45
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Re: Italy to Impose New Tax on Yachts

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I don't know if that tax for other EC flagged boats is possible or legal. Do you know any tax required on EC countries? I think they have tried that in Sardinia and Greece and had not succeed, not because they have failed too but because they were not allowed.

One of the basis of EC is free circulation of people. If I am not living in Italy I have the right to go there by car, airplane or boat and they can not tax me because I am already taxed in my country. However they can do that luxury tax for Italians or Italian flagged boats and that's all. I guess that they can do that for foreigners of the EC but that makes no sense and it would be a minority of boats anyway.

Spanish have also a Luxury tax but only for their boats (you pay it when you buy the boat). They cannot allow that otherwise, the French, the Spanish, the Greeks the Portuguese and all would have also the right to tax all passing boats. That's crazy, like medieval times, you have to pay a toll for passing by.
Not sure where you are getting your information, but every country in Europe has it's own taxes that apply to visitors, VAT, fuel tax etc, whether you have paid taxes in your own country or not. I also saw earlier in this thread, someone mentioned an airport tax that applies in UK (and at the moment they are still in Europe).

I think you may be getting confused with income tax where there is some sort of international tax equalisation scheme to avoid double taxation. The Italians can call this tax whatever they like, e.g. a ports or harbour tax, a sea safety tax, a marine envronmental tax etc so don't worry, they can bring it in if they want to.

It's not a good idea but remember taxes are formulated by politicians and public servants, neither group has a good understanding of how society works (at least not here in Australia)

Brownie
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