Italian visa

[noelex 77]

I would like to cruse around italy for the next 6 months and then stay in the med for another 18 months or so.
I have dual nationality (UK and Australian) but my wife only has Australian citizenship.
It appears she can only get a visa for 90 days within any 6 month period. This would not let us fulfill our plans.
Any suggestions on overcoming the red tape would be much appreciated.
I have purchased a yacht in Italy, but the Italian embasy in Australia is reluctant to issue any visa as we only have a one way plane ticket to Italy .
Thanks John

[TaoJones]

Hello John. Welcome to the Forum.

I'm wondering why you feel you want to sail in (only) Italian waters for six months. If it were me, I would cruise Slovenia, Croatia, the Greek Islands, perhaps Turkey, Malta, France, Spain.

I'm not putting Italy down, please understand, but why limit your cruising to just that one area? There is so much to see throughout the Med, and you can remain outside Italian waters for an intervening 90 days, then reenter. Just a thought.

As to your visa problems, why not contact your elected representative's office, explain your predicament, and see if you can enlist their help in dealing with the Italians. It seems logical to me that if someone whom they may consider an "equal" pleads for the visa on your behalf, they may lighten up a bit.

You might want to explore the tax (VAT) consequences of keeping your vessel in Italy. Don't know if it's still the case, but there used to be real advantages to basing your yacht in Croatia. You can still cruise throughout the other EU countries abutting the Med, and you will save a ton of money.

TaoJones

[noelex 77]

Dear TaoJones
Thanks for your helpful comments. The reson for staying in Italy for 6 months is that we have a marina birth paid till then. We plan to then head for Croatia.
We had hoped to stay close to the marina while sorting out the yacht.
A cruse to say Corsica (French) would be an option within 90 days, but this is not outside the EU and on returning to Italy I am not sure if my wife would be reisued with a further 90 day visa ? Does anyone know if this is likely.

Thanks John

[Steve Pope]

John which flag does your yacht have? If it is Italian they used to make it very difficult for anyone without an Italian skippers license, It may have changed but some years ago I did a delivery from Rimini in the North Adriatic to Tunisia on an Italian flagged yacht, I had no Italian license so officially we had to follow the Mediteranian coast until we reached Gibraltar staying within the coastal limits and then cross to North Africa and coast crawl to Tunisia. Fortunately we were "blown" of course during a storm and just happened to land in Malta. The twist in the tail was we had a fuel problem and had to call into Pantellerial an Italian Island part way between Malta and Tunis for clean diesel, luckily we were able to get in and out without coming to the notice of the authorities.
The Croatian coast used to be great cruising, this was in the days of Tito and a lot of water must have changed by now but cruising inside the Coranado islands was one of the highlights when sailing from Venice down to Greek waters. I did that passage several times and it was never boring.

[noelex 77]

Dear Steve
Thanks for your reply. The Yacht has been reregistered as Australian.
Cheers John

[TaoJones]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Dear TaoJones
Thanks for your helpful comments. The reson for staying in Italy for 6 months is that we have a marina birth paid till then. We plan to then head for Croatia.
We had hoped to stay close to the marina while sorting out the yacht.
A cruse to say Corsica (French) would be an option within 90 days, but this is not outside the EU and on returning to Italy I am not sure if my wife would be reisued with a further 90 day visa ? Does anyone know if this is likely.

Thanks John

John, I don't believe that Italy's "90 days in any 6 month period" limitation means that time spent in any other EU jurisdiction keeps the clock running as far as the Italians are concerned. Once you leave Italy, time you spend out-of-country (even in another EU country) is accruing to your benefit, not to your detriment.

Given your desire to stay close to your already-paid-for berth at the marina in Italy while you shake down the vessel for wider cruising, would it be possible for you to attend to all of that in your first 90 days there? Then, satisfied that all of your vessel's needs have been attended to, start your cruise outside Italian waters.

The 90 day limitation within any six month period will apply within each of the countries you visit, but each jurisdiction will keep its own tally. It isn't, as far as I know, that you are limited to 90 days within the EU in any six month period.

If the following chart (from the i-Explore website) is accurate, an Australian does not require a visa to enter Italy, nor is an onward ticket a necessity.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Passport/Visa

Requirements:

Nationality? Passport? Visa? Return Ticket?

British. . . . . Yes . . . . . No . . . . . No

Australian . . Yes . . . . . No . . . . . No
Canadian . . Yes . . . . . No . . . . . No
American . . . Yes . . . . . No . . . . . No
Other EU . . . 1 . . . . . . No . . . . . No

Passport Note
(a) Italy is a signatory to the 1995 Schengen Agreement. (b) The regulations stated below also apply to San Marino and the Vatican City.

Passports
Passport valid for at least three months beyond length of stay required by all nationals referred to in the chart above except:
(a) 1. EU nationals holding a valid national ID card.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

If you and your wife can arrange your travels so that you have complied with the 90 day restriction, and worked around it, it seems to me that your only loss will be three months pre-paid berthing.

Best of luck to you.

TaoJones

[TaoJones]

Hello again, John.

I had tried to add the link to the iExplore webpage with the information in my previous post, plus a bunch more, but the system here doesn't let you edit your post after 30 minutes.

Here's the link:

Italy Visa Information | iExplore.com

TaoJones

[noelex 77]

Daer TaoJones
Thanks for the information from the IExplore web site it answers many of my questions. I dont want to have to leave the shelter of a marina berth I have paid for, particuarly as the 90 days would make it December, not the ideal time for a shakdown cruse.
At the moment this looks like our only option.
Cheers John

[swagman]

Hi John,
FYI (although we are a UK registered yacht) we've never ever been asked for anything when visiting Italian ports, although I can understand you wishing to do the right thing.
But earlier this year we were chatting with a fellow Ozzie who we met in Turkey - he too plans to keep his yacht in Italy for this coming winter. He explained he had organised a good value berth (they are on a limited budget) in Sibari on the Italian Ionian coast with an unusual bonus.

It seems this marina has locked gates, so his arrangment is that whilst parked up there and 'bonded' by the local customs, his time restriction in Italy is put on hold.

Apparently he can still live on the yacht during the winter, and even when they open the lock gates go out for a few days, but essentially it is one place where you can stay and put the restictions in the freezer.

Sorry don't have more specific info - but the marina web site is marina-sabari.it.

Hope this helps.
JOHN.

[noelex 77]

Dear Swagman
Thanks for your reply by the way I love your blog.
The marina you mentioned sounds promising, but our current marina is paid till march and I am reluctant to give this up. The problem is not with the yacht, it has VAT paid and can stay in the EU, or with me (duel UK and Australian citizenship), but my wife who only has Australian citizenship.
When we get an exit clearance do you think the authorities will be concerned if my wife has been in Italy for more than 90 days.
I realize this would be speculation, but international cruising is new to me and I am on a steep learning curve. Some rules can seemingly be ignored which is strange for someone who has followed the rules all his life.
Cheers John
“Amzer Zo” Yacht Blog

[swagman]

Hi John,
THe trouble with officials is you never know when they will apply the rules and when they won't. I strongly suggest you factor in a short hop out of the country (lots of cheapo flights Italy / UK these days) and get some shopping - and make sure the passports stamped on your return. Whilst the law maybe 90 days inside EU (and I don't know if it is or isn't), I'm pretty sure Italian authorities will apply it as 90 days in Italy.
Good luck
JOHN

[David_Old_Jersey]

One thing you might want to look into is whether the Italians would require your wife to apply for a (further) Visa in her country of origin (some countries are funny like that).

I am sure that this is a well beaten path - just don't know the answer

[hellosailor]

John-
Many countries will not issue a visa unless you have proof that you have a return ticket (OUT). This is not unusual. In the case where sailors are flying in and sailing home again, etc., there is usually some provision where they will accept a statement from the captain of the vessel, certifying that this is crew who will accompany them back OUT again and that the passage OUT is paid/bonded. I am told that sometimes it is easier if the ship's papers list the spouse as "co-captain" because then, even if you are kidnapped by a UFO, the spouse is still legally allowed & entitled to take the boat and go home on it.

I suspect you've just encountered the run of the mill bureaucrat, the same in every country, who has no idea what "yachts" are all about, no idea what accomodations can normally be made, and is Real Damn Sure that they aren't going to embarass themselves by admitting that to you.

You may be better off contacting the immigration department in Italy directly, and asking what provisions/options there are for visiting crew who will be returning home (OUT of Italy) on a foreign-flagged yacht. Keep any replies (emails or letters) with you, in case you need to re-explain this to anyone local while in Italy.