In or out of the EU, how will it effect the boating community.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by hoppy

The problem with the EU and the reason that the UK needs to wants various opt outs can be attributed to 6 letters...

F
R
A
N
C
E

Stupidity like the CAP that pampers the French famers and the complete idiocy of moving the EU parliament to Strasbourg for 4 days a month to give the local hookers some business are two examples of EU waste that cannot be stopped because the French prevent any significant reforms.

I'm sure that the British would be much more accepting of the EU if they could see that significant reforms had been made to the way the EU works over the years they have been part of it.

Nah! But you have a point there and France will learn the hard way but the reason UK wants out is mainly another one: They refuse a federal Europe, don't want to have part in it, having blocking all the moves towards it for a long time.

They don't want or have Schengen, they don't have the Euro and they want out of a lot of anything that goes towards an harmonization of laws on the Union (any harmonization imply a loss of sovereignty).

What they want is simply a trades agreement and EU has become a lot more than that and wants to continue developing steps towards a Federal state.

UK will have to decide if it stays with EU or if wants out, but cannot dictate the future of the Union more than its share of votes dictate on the European parliament.

For many Germany is seeing leading the UE and that is a fact, but it has done that for merit and not because the other countries have to follow his leadership.

Even considering France and Germany a coalition of other countries have the power to block their policies if they are not the ones with whom they agree or desire and even vote new ones.

The problem here is that UK alone can't

Germany and France have only 22.7% of the total of the places on the European parliament, UK has only 9.7%, the same has Italy. Spain and Portugal together have more places than UK. And even considering all the countries above mentioned they only count for 44.7% of the deciding power, the rest lays with all other members.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Polux

Nah! But you have a point there and France will learn the hard way but the reason UK wants out is mainly another one: They refuse a federal Europe, don't want to have part in it, having blocking all the moves towards it for a long time.

They don't want or have Schengen, they don't have the Euro and they want out of a lot of anything that goes towards an harmonization of laws on the Union (any harmonization imply a loss of sovereignty).

What they want is simply a trades agreement and EU has become a lot more than that and wants to continue developing steps towards a Federal state.

UK will have to decide if it stays with EU or if wants out, but cannot dictate the future of the Union more than its share of votes dictate on the European parliament.

For many Germany is seeing leading the UE and that is a fact, but it has done that for merit and not because the other countries have to follow his leadership.

Even considering France and Germany a coalition of other countries have the power to block their policies if they are not the ones with whom they agree or desire and even vote new ones.

The problem here is that UK alone can't

Germany and France have only 22.7% of the total of the places on the European parliament, UK has only 9.7%, the same has Italy. Spain and Portugal together have more places than UK. And even considering all the countries above mentioned they only count for 44.7% of the deciding power, the rest lays with all other members.

So.. if we are such a pain.. get your Federal mates together and kick us out.. you've been whining about us since the 2nd World War.. we won't cry.. honest..
But.. you dare not do you..

[Polux]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Russia is it's own animal. Peter the Great tried...and failed to pull it into the European world.

It seems you never heard about Catherine the Great "

who led her country into full participation in the political and cultural life of

Europe, carrying on the work begun by Peter the Great."

Catherine II | empress of Russia | Britannica.com

Domestically she continued to encourage the spread of Western culture and values among the Russian elite. Schooled in the ideas of the Enlightenment, which espoused reason as the ruler of human life, she chose French culture as a guide and for a time appeared to be interested in the liberal theories espoused by such French writers as Voltaire. She even made French the official language of the court....

Under her guidance, St. Petersburg became Russia’s “window on the West.” For the first time Russians were completely involved in the intellectual trends of Europe. Russians, not only aristocrats, but artists and architects as well, traveled the continent absorbing the culture of the period.
Arts Curriculum

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Polux

It seems you never heard about Catherine the Great "

who led her country into full participation in the political and cultural life of

Europe, carrying on the work begun by Peter the Great."

Catherine II | empress of Russia | Britannica.com

Domestically she continued to encourage the spread of Western culture and values among the Russian elite. Schooled in the ideas of the Enlightenment, which espoused reason as the ruler of human life, she chose French culture as a guide and for a time appeared to be interested in the liberal theories espoused by such French writers as Voltaire. She even made French the official language of the court....

Under her guidance, St. Petersburg became Russia’s “window on the West.” For the first time Russians were completely involved in the intellectual trends of Europe. Russians, not only aristocrats, but artists and architects as well, traveled the continent absorbing the culture of the period.
Arts Curriculum

Do my eyes deceive me.. or is a Federalist singing the praises of Monarchies and Imperialism.. this Thread get weirder and weirder..

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Polux

It seems you never heard about Catherine the Great "

who led her country into full participation in the political and cultural life of

Europe, carrying on the work begun by Peter the Great."

Catherine II | empress of Russia | Britannica.com

Domestically she continued to encourage the spread of Western culture and values among the Russian elite. Schooled in the ideas of the Enlightenment, which espoused reason as the ruler of human life, she chose French culture as a guide and for a time appeared to be interested in the liberal theories espoused by such French writers as Voltaire. She even made French the official language of the court....

Under her guidance, St. Petersburg became Russia’s “window on the West.” For the first time Russians were completely involved in the intellectual trends of Europe. Russians, not only aristocrats, but artists and architects as well, traveled the continent absorbing the culture of the period.
Arts Curriculum

I well aware of Russian history. All you did was lend support that even with multiple czars trying to drag Russia into the European world, they never succedded. Peter was just the most well known for trying.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by boatman61

So.. if we are such a pain.. get your Federal mates together and kick us out.. you've been whining about us since the 2nd World War.. we won't cry.. honest..
But.. you dare not do you..

No you are wrong about that. If UK continues to block the future of EU has the vast majority sees it, it will go out. Nobody needs to kick UK out, it is already half out, always had been.

If it continues like that it will go voluntarily out since would not want to accept the ruling of EU parliament. I believe it has not have happened a month back because EU want to give all chances to UK and also because that was not a good time to create any turmoil due to all problems EU is facing with immigrants and with economy.

I guess British have a completely wrong idea about what most Europeans think about UK. Sure, they wanted it on the EU but only if they accept that they worth 9.7% on the general rule of things and don't pretend to impose their views to the other 90.3%. As it is, everybody is fed up with the British, because it is about the British. The Scots want to be part of the EU.

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Do my eyes deceive me.. or is a Federalist singing the praises of Monarchies and Imperialism.. this Thread get weirder and weirder..

LOL

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Polux

No you are wrong about that. If UK continues to block the future of EU has the vast majority sees it, it will go out. Nobody needs to kick UK out, it is already half out, always had been.

If it continues like that it will go voluntarily out since would not want to accept the ruling of EU parliament. I believe it has not have happened a month back because EU want to give all chances to UK and also because that was not a good time to create any turmoil due to all problems EU is facing with immigrants and with economy.

I guess British have a completely wrong idea about what most Europeans think about UK. Sure, they wanted it on the EU but only if they accept that they worth 9.7% on the general rule of things and don't pretend to impose their views to the other 90.3%. As it is, everybody is fed up with the British, because it is about the British. The Scots want to be part of the EU.

The Scots are British.. but not English.. its like calling a Galician or Catalonian Spanish..
Great Britain is 4 Nations united under a Monarchy.. England, Scotland, Wales and N Ireland..
However we have just had a great demonstration of EU organisation and foreign policy in the last 6 months.. which has basically ended up with a German deciding on immigration policy and now in a great demonstration of EU power she has insisted Turkey give them one up the butt..
First time I've heard of a woman publicly paying to get screwed..

[boatman61]

Mr Putin...
There will never be a better moment..
By the time this lot have finished picking their nose's and scratching their butts.. you'll be in Paris.
and Polux can have his Federation

[Polux]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Mr Putin...
There will never be a better moment..
By the time this lot have finished picking their nose's and scratching their butts.. you'll be in Paris.
and Polux can have his Federation

Somebody that reads what you write would have the impression that I am a guy with strange ideas that think, in a very lonely way, that EU should continue to take measures for creating the conditions for a future federation and that is quite odd, or funny if one has the right sense of humour, because it is you that are in a lonely position wishing otherwise in what regards EU population.

The ones that desire the same as me are more than the double of the ones that think like you

Regarding the Scots being British, it seem that some don't feel that way:

"Britain has always seemed to me be a construct."
Yet I have never.. felt remotely British."
Can you be Scottish and British? | Politics | The Guardian

Best Answer: Technically we are all British because we are a part of the united Kingdom. But many as i do hold different politicall views and see themselves as their nationality only i for one do. I am Welsh and solely welsh i don't class myself as British it's just a label on my passport. I want Independence for Wales. all countries in the World have a wright to govern themselves and not by other countries. the sooner we become independent the better IMO.

So it seems that "technically" Scots and Welsh are British but many do not feel British and some, or many on Scotland, would want independence, maybe not to be called technically British anymore

[Jason Flare]

What is it that you want Polux?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Polux

Somebody that reads what you write would have the impression that I am a guy with strange ideas that think, in a very lonely way, that EU should continue to take measures for creating the conditions for a future federation and that is quite odd, or funny if one has the right sense of humour, because it is you that are in a lonely position wishing otherwise in what regards EU population.

The ones that desire the same as me are more than the double of the ones that think like you

Polux.. it works both ways.. you think the UK is a waste of space.. I think the EU is.. the only difference between us is You care what people think about you.. I could not care less what folk think about me.
From your posts I know you have much to lose.. myself.. I've nothing to lose and nothing to gain..
I have an impartial perspective on what's happening.. Blair was a sell out prat in my opinion.. and so is Cameron..
Socrates is a crook which is why he was jailed.. Cavaco an incompetent.. France has a succession of corrupt Presidents and Prime Ministers..
Merkel strangely enough I once respected.. sadly however it looks like she has followed Thatcher and totally lost the plot.. so what does that leave.??
What has Europe achieved in advances of any kind in the last 20yrs except stumble from one International farce to another..
I'm merely the Devils Advocate.. present a coherent argument without pulling up Wikipedia cut and pastes and maybe we could agree on something good that European Union has achieved..
And Please.. do not say Peace in our Time.. that's down to NATO... a pre EU institution.


Damn.. I forgot Italy's shining example.. Ahahahahahahahaa

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

What is it that you want Polux?

I am exchanging views with Boatman in a pleasurable way and in a good mood. I don't think he is pissed with me since he seems to have in generous amounts the characteristic that I like more on the British, the famous sense of humour. Why do you ask? It is not obvious?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Polux

I am exchanging views with Boatman in a pleasurable way and in a good mood. I don't think he is pissed with me since he seems to have in generous amounts the characteristic that I like more on the British, the famous sense of humour. Why do you ask? It is not obvious?

No mate.. to trivial a matter to get pissed about.. however.. steal my glass of Agua Dente Velho.. that's War..

[Polux]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Polux.. it works both ways.. you think the UK is a waste of space.. I think the EU is.. the only difference between us is You care what people think about you.. I could not care less what folk think about me.
From your posts I know you have much to lose.. myself.. I've nothing to lose and nothing to gain..
I have an impartial perspective on what's happening.. Blair was a sell out prat in my opinion.. and so is Cameron..
Socrates is a crook which is why he was jailed.. Cavaco an incompetent.. France has a succession of corrupt Presidents and Prime Ministers..
Merkel strangely enough I once respected.. sadly however it looks like she has followed Thatcher and totally lost the plot.. so what does that leave.??
What has Europe achieved in advances of any kind in the last 20yrs except stumble from one International farce to another..
I'm merely the Devils Advocate.. present a coherent argument without pulling up Wikipedia cut and pastes and maybe we could agree on something good that European Union has achieved..
And Please.. do not say Peace in our Time.. that's down to NATO... a pre EU institution.

Why do you think that I think UK is a waste of space? UK is a political reunion of several countries. It is up to them if they decide to remain together or not. I have not an opinion about that even if I find that the citizens of any country, independent or not should be able to decide their future.

UK seems to agree with me since it allowed a referendum in Scotland about independence and I praise the British democracy for that.

I don't think differently regarding Catalunya and Basque country in Spain. Not against neither favor of their independence, only consider that they should be able to democratly chose what they want.

Regarding Socrates there is nobody more satisfied than me regarding him being in jail. And having Politicians in jail says not badly regarding the justice and democracy in a country. Unfortunately there are many countries, including European ones, that should have corrupt politicians in Jail but have them on power.

There are corrupt politicians everywhere, not all but some, but there are few countries that have them in jail, not due to some cup d'état but because justice has worked.

Regarding what EU has accomplished it is evident for me and for all that want the continuation of steps toward federalism: a much bigger sense of common identity, a bigger respect and reconnaissance regarding all the cultures that integrate EU that are seen as a common heritage, the richness of Europe. Difference in unity towards a common goal: a better strategic geopolitical and economic position for all regarding the inevitable evolution of world order.