In or out of the EU, how will it effect the boating community.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Socialist = Communist with a democratic mask..
Communist = an Honest democrat..
You sound almost American..

By the way..
Don't take my posts as Rants.. they are not.. just how things stand from my perspective.. no malice intended.
Likely offense will be taken regardless.
If its Out.. I'll likely have to leave Portugal but Hey.. not the 1st country I've lived in and likely not the last.. Have Boat can/will Travel.
Personally.. my job will be harder as I will have to jump through the hoops Americans have to with 'Bonds' in the S Pacific etc as at the moment its like cruising Europe..
But this is bigger than MY personal concerns.. and.. I hate being Told what to do by folk With a Personal Agenda.
Story of my life..
The Rebel without a Cause

[Polux]

Originally Posted by boatman61

By the way..
Don't take my posts as Rants.. they are not.. just how things stand from my perspective.. no malice intended.
Likely offense will be taken regardless.
If its Out.. I'll likely have to leave Portugal but Hey.. not the 1st country I've lived in and likely not the last.. Have Boat can/will Travel.
Personally.. my job will be harder as I will have to jump through the hoops Americans have to with 'Bonds' in the S Pacific etc as at the moment its like cruising Europe..
But this is bigger than MY personal concerns.. and.. I hate being Told what to do by folk With a Personal Agenda.
Story of my life..
The Rebel without a Cause

I have nothing against Communists, I am friend of several, just don't agree with them in what regards Politics and anyway on the time of the Portuguese revolution (20 years old) I was an Anarchist. At the University I eat many times at the cost of several communist parties: They asked me to make their manifestos and order points for the general assemblies in exchange for a free meal.

I was always good speaking several "languages". Great and interesting times those very confused and confusing years. Believe it or not about that time I was also the press attaché of a Minister, a social-democrat...but that is another story

Regarding staying in Portugal you have only to buy a half million house and they offer you a gold visa, or marry with a Portuguese girl. Go for the second choice

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Polux

I have nothing against Communists, I am friend of several, just don't agree with them in what regards Politics and anyway on the time of the Portuguese revolution (20 years old) I was an Anarchist. At the University I eat many times at the cost of several communist parties: They asked me to make their manifestos and order points for the general assemblies in exchange for a free meal.

I was always good speaking several "languages". Great and interesting times those very confused and confusing years. Believe it or not about that time I was also the press attaché of a Minister, a social-democrat...but that is another story

Regarding staying in Portugal you have only to buy a half million house and they offer you a gold visa, or marry with a Portuguese girl. Go for the second choice

Have had Residency for 6years now.. just not sure if it will still count.. or if I'd still get my Pension as I've no 'solid' UK ties.. like I said..
Out.. I lose.. but that's life.

Anyway... I miss the Escudo and the Peseta..

[leftbrainstuff]

Originally Posted by Ian Streten

With the upcoming in or out EU vote in June 2016 for UK residents & as a yachtsman who spends most of our Summers in Greece was wondering how it would effect our standing if as a Nation we vote to come out. Will it mean that we will be subjected to the same legislation as non EU yachtsman? Hope this does not sound to shallow but the thought of restrictive movement for us around Europe will certainly influence our decision whether to vote in or out.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

As an Aussie we'd like nothing better than to see the Schengen mess dismantled.

New Zealanders currently get a better deal after the French military sank the Rainbow Warrior in Auckland many years ago.

The UK is not currently part of the Schengen agreement at present. The belgians already want to tax you on your red diesel you import today.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff

As an Aussie we'd like nothing better than to see the Schengen mess dismantled.

New Zealanders currently get a better deal after the French military sank the Rainbow Warrior in Auckland many years ago.

The UK is not currently part of the Schengen agreement at present. The belgians already want to tax you on your red diesel you import today.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Many people working in the tourist industry stand to lose their jobs if Schengen gets dismantled. You may call it "a mess", but the millions of visitors who now only have to make an appointment with one consulate will disagree with you...

Regarding the issue with Brits getting in trouble with red diesel in Belgium, that's a completely different story, where it is actually the UK that carries most of the blame.


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[Polux]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

Many people working in the tourist industry stand to lose their jobs if Schengen gets dismantled. You may call it "a mess", but the millions of visitors who now only have to make an appointment with one consulate will disagree with you...
...

Not to mention the Europeans that got used to travel and visit almost all Europe as if they were on their own country.

Some years back I forget that UK was not Schengen and I went for a tour on the Welsh region. I was on a queue for almost an hour to show papers than my wife was took apart and they were looking to his identity papers with a microscope for an eternity before letting us in.

Not a smile, not an apologize. It looked like they were disappointed for the documents not to be fake and that it was just normal procedure. Maybe it is.

Never again!

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Polux

Not to mention the Europeans that got used to travel and visit almost all Europe as if they were on their own country.

Some years back I forget that UK was not Schengen and I went for a tour on the Welsh region. I was on a queue for almost an hour to show papers than my wife was took apart and they were looking to his identity papers with a microscope for an eternity before letting us in.

Not a smile, not an apologize. It looked like they were disappointed for the documents not to be fake and that it was just normal procedure. Maybe it is.

Never again!

I have to do this every time I go to Paris from London.. whats the big deal.. us staying or leaving will be the same.. just I'll be doing it in Calais not Ashford in Kent.
As for tourism.. that's a load of horseshit.. Brits holiday where the exchange rate is good.. as illustrated by the empty hotels when the £/euro was nearly on a parity a little while back..

[hoppy]

I read that there are about 2.3 million Brits living in the EU and about the same numbers of EU citizens in the UK. Whilst there will be no great loss if a portion of each lot were sent packing, but for most of them, any attempt to quickly remove any sort of right to reside/work will harm businesses greatly, whether it's a company forced to lose staff or pubs that Boaty frequents.

If the UK leaves, it will be a long process and part of the process will involve keeping a status quo until trade and other agreements are signed to pretty much maintain the Status quo.

The EU needs the UK and the UK needs the EU.

[boatman61]

Hoppy.. believe me mate.. it'll make no difference.. at least for me.
I have to clear back into the EU at present anyway.. going to the UK I just arrive

[Ribbit]

EU "Trade Deals" ended up costing me almost double the price to ship goods from Spain to the UK, as shipping the same size container from New York to the UK.

They are actually anti-"Trade" and the "Deals" aren't what the customer gets thanks to them.

Keep Government out of business. It's people to people, and business to business - not Government Bureaucrat to Government Bureaucrat, pretending that they aren't establishing anti-competitive, anti-job, Cartels and Monopolies, which kill off small and medium sized businesses (the ones that used to provide around 70% of all the real jobs).

No member Nation is going to have a hope of recovering from this EU insanity, until they leave.

If a business in Prague wants to sell me product, or a business in Warsaw wants to buy product off me, tell me, just what has that actually got to do with a bunch of people in Brussels?

eta: As an importer/exporter, I often earned more 'profit' from dealing in Peseta's on the FX Market, than I did from the goods themselves (I had a live FX link to a spreadsheet that updated all prices of goods on my desktop, and when it was the right time to buy, I phoned the FX desk and transferred money to an account in Spain, or wherever else I was doing business). This allowed me to do all manner of 'specials' and discounts for my customers, which saved them a lot of money.

The single currency has actually hurt real businesses and customers, not helped them. The EU couldn't compete its way out of a wet paper bag - they don't even understand what the word 'competition' means.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by hoppy

...

The EU needs the UK and the UK needs the EU.

No, at long term that is not going to work like that. UK is small compared with EU and once out it is not to be expected that favorable trade conditions will be maintained with UK unless that has some sort of benefice to EU.

You cannot put on the two plates of a balance the 450 millions of EU citizens and the 64 millions of UK citizens. it is obvious who is going to be the loser at the end.

Federal Europe with time will probably see Turkey and Russia become part of it (when they sort out democracy and civil rights) and then we are talking about 620 millions of citizens a number that seems right to me to constitute a sizable economic bloc on the new economic order, with China, India, Brazil with US assuming other key roles.

Europe as a tapestry of small countries has no future and will become insignificant. Any European country including UK or even Russia will not have the weight to play any significant role on the new economic order.

What would be the future of UK in all that?

[Polux]

Originally Posted by hoppy

I read that there are about 2.3 million Brits living in the EU and about the same numbers of EU citizens in the UK. Whilst there will be no great loss if a portion of each lot were sent packing, but for most of them, any attempt to quickly remove any sort of right to reside/work will harm businesses greatly, whether it's a company forced to lose staff or pubs that Boaty frequents.

If the UK leaves, it will be a long process and part of the process will involve keeping a status quo until trade and other agreements are signed to pretty much maintain the Status quo.
.

It seem to me that the number of EU citizens in UK is vastly superior to the number of UK citizens living on EU countries.
www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn06077.pdf

One of the things UK wanted and partially managed was not to give the same social welfare rights to EU citizens as the ones their own citizens have. I believe other EU countries are going to reciprocate that in what regards UK citizens living on their countries but by large even if UK goes out of EU things should not change much regarding immigrants because contrary to what many UK citizens think, UK needs them.

Nobody is interested in doing the jobs they do by the price they do and if they went away and that same job is done at the double of the costs it is easy to see what would happen to the economy.

The same will not happen regarding trade where the consumers in Britain are only about 1/8 of the consumers on the EU and I don't think that regarding trade agreements that would be favorable to UK in what regards power to negotiate favorable deals. It would be possible if those trades would be negotiated with individual countries but they will be negotiated by EU and equal for all. The state of the Union has already reached that point.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Polux

It seem to me that the number of EU citizens in UK is vastly superior to the number of UK citizens living on EU countries.
www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn06077.pdf

One of the things UK wanted and partially managed was not to give the same social welfare rights to EU citizens as the ones their own citizens have. I believe other EU countries are going to reciprocate that in what regards UK citizens living on their countries but by large even if UK goes out of EU things should not change much regarding immigrants because contrary to what many UK citizens think, UK needs them.

Nobody is interested in doing the jobs they do by the price they do and if they went away and that same job is done at the double of the costs it is easy to see what would happen to the economy.

The same will not happen regarding trade where the consumers in Britain are only about 1/8 of the consumers on the EU and I don't think that regarding trade agreements that would be favorable to UK in what regards power to negotiate favorable deals. It would be possible if those trades would be negotiated with individual countries but they will be negotiated by EU and equal for all. The state of the Union has already reached that point.

That's a joke.. actually its a bloody lie..
Before being able to qualify for benefits in Portugal I would have to work for two years in Portugal..
Whereas Portuguese and others can go to the UK and qualify for Social assistance straight away.. and don't say they cannot.. I know enough who've done it.
As it happens I pay the going rate for any medical treatment in Portugal rather than use/transfer my 'Rights' to here.. the people are being screwed over enough already without an English Bum adding to their costs..
My friends think I'm nuts.. but I call it a Social conscience..
Also.. all these immigrants have contributed to zero hours contracts, slave labour camps run by poles, Albanians, Ukrainians etc who take their countrymens passports and pack them into caravans like sardines.. and pay them 2euros an hour.
These Europeans are the ones who stand to lose the most

[Polux]

Originally Posted by boatman61

That's a joke.. actually its a bloody lie..
Before being able to qualify for benefits in Portugal I would have to work for two years in Portugal..
Whereas Portuguese and others can go to the UK and qualify for Social assistance straight away.. and don't say they cannot.. I know enough who've done it.
As it happens I pay the going rate for any medical treatment in Portugal rather than use/transfer my 'Rights' to here.. the people are being screwed over enough already without an English Bum adding to their costs..
My friends think I'm nuts.. but I call it a Social conscience..

Yes you are nuts and you should not joke about that. You have the right of medical assistance in portugal if you have your papers in order, the same way Portuguese have in any other EU country. It is part of the EU agreement regarding social mobility.

You can pay some minor treatments but if you fall really ill you can nead interventions needing many thousands of Euros and be in no state to go to England to have them and in that case it is better to have your papers in order. I have, just in case I need serious assistance in any of the EU countries where I cruise in the summer. It is a card that you have to have passed by the UK welfare system that allows you medical assistance on EU countries.

Regarding working in Portugal, unless the rules have been already changed due to the exception of the UK, the rules for you are exactly the same as for any other EU citizen and the same as for any Portuguese. I will check that out.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Polux

Yes you are nuts and you should not joke about that. You have the right of medical assistance in portugal if you have your papers in order, the same way Portuguese have in any other EU country. It is part of the EU agreement regarding social mobility.

You can pay some minor treatments but if you fall really ill you can nead interventions needing many thousands of Euros and be in no state to go to England to have them and in that case it is better to have your papers in order. I have, just in case I need serious assistance in any of the EU countries where I cruise in the summer. It is a card that you have to have passed by the UK welfare system that allows you medical assistance on EU countries.

Regarding working in Portugal, unless the rules have been already changed due to the exception of the UK, the rules for you are exactly the same as for any other EU citizen and the same as for any Portuguese. I will check that out.

Broken ribs.. 90euro's.. examination in Misericordia, Portimao. Jab in ribs.. I scream.. analysis 'Yes you've broken three ribs.'
Blood test 25euro, x-ray 15euro, medical examination by doctor for a letter saying I'm healthy.. 35euro.. its peanuts to me.. why should I not pay if I can.. leave something for the people here surviving on the minimum wage of 500euro/month
Anyway.. I'm now a pensioner so it won't be any use to me.. I just want to get a better exchange rate for the £.. my monthly pension goes up.. and.. I'm NOT joking this time