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Old 16-08-2011, 08:08   #1
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ICC Needed for Spain ?

I have a friend who intends keeping his Jeanneau 44 in Spain (Cartagena) for the winter and maybe longer as a cruising base.

He has heard that the Spanish are very hot on checking if the owner/skipper has appropriate qualifications such as an ICC.

Now, I have been into many spanish ports and no-one has ever asked to see my licence so I'm not really in a position to advise him.

Does anyone have any first hand experience of this or any anecdotal stories?
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Old 16-08-2011, 08:24   #2
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Re: ICC needed for Spain?

Hi Ed,
Well they were not hot on checking from 2004 to 2007. Maybe its changed since?
We only ever once got asked for qualifications over thirty years sailing (incl berthing one year in Spain) and that one time was when leaving Turkey in 2007.
Facts are you didn't legally need one for Turkey, but the delays it caused me, along with the all round frustration, resulted in me getting one the next time I was back in the UK.
So my suggestion is even if not actually required, it might be worth getting one whilst it is easier to do so.
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Old 17-08-2011, 01:14   #3
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Re: ICC Needed for Spain ?

Hi Ed,

We came up through Spain and the Balearics from Gibraltar this earlier year and wasn't asked for any qualification, which I specifically got before coming as we had heard the same. We were only ever asked for Boat Registration and Insurance. BTW, same goes for the South of France, Corsica and Italy so far.

In fact regulation seems very relaxed over here, customs and immigration are not interested in you much at all. We have tried to clear in when changing countries are just get a puzzled look and the question "Why?" The only time we have had interaction with customs was when we were approached at anchor in Puerto de Palamos north of Barcelona and they only wanted to make sure we knew the VAT regulations so we didn't overstay and get a large tax bill, all very nice.

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Old 17-08-2011, 01:29   #4
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Re: ICC Needed for Spain ?

American friends wintered aboard their boat in Cartagena in 2009. No requests were made for their qualifications (neither person aboard - owners- hold any captains' licensing).

We have been asked for our captains licenses only once in Greece this year, and that was by the Port Police in Naxos. Of course, both these instances are anecdotal. Another American boat that visited Naxos 2 months before us were not asked for licensing. YMMV.

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Old 17-08-2011, 02:32   #5
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pirate Re: ICC Needed for Spain ?

I have been asked when doing deliveries... Portugal is the most rigourous followed by Greece... but I rarely get bothered normally except when checking into some marinas.
With Portugal its the drug smuggling problem which they are very keen to stop..
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Old 21-08-2011, 07:19   #6
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Re: ICC Needed for Spain ?

Thanks for invading a post with your blatant spam.

Back on topic, i've been in southern Spain for nearly two years and have never been asked for it. Having said that though, technically it IS a requirement so I think it would be prudent to advise your friend to get one. Sod's law says the one time you don't have one, you'll need it. If he does it in the UK, it's not expensive, certainly much cheaper than doing it down here.

Another point to note, the insurance for the boat will be much less if he has one as well, or so i've found. My last boat (15m flybridge) cost just over 600 per year. The new owner can't get it for less than 1000 because he doesn't have any formal qualifications. So, put that way, the ICC is free and from year two, you'll be saving money.
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Old 21-08-2011, 07:41   #7
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Re: ICC Needed for Spain ?

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Originally Posted by simonmd View Post
Thanks for invading a post with your blatant spam.
Simonmds quote was to a spammer trying to flog yacht services in Croatia. We don't normally discuss moderator actions, but 19 posts in an hour flogging his website was enough to earn him an instant ban. This after I directed him to the forum rules half an hour ago.

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Old 21-08-2011, 08:11   #8
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Re: ICC Needed for Spain ?

We sailed all through the Caribbean and Bahamas, then across to Bermuda and Azores without ever being asked for any papers.

Then we sail from Sines (Portugal) around Cabo St. Vincent to Sagres and we get boarded on the way by marine police. They wanted all our paperwork, asked about all our safety equipment, and even checked our fire extinguishers (and found them to be out of date - oops ).

I did do some courses a couple of years ago, but can't actually remember what they were, and I left the certificates back home in Canada as I never figured I would need them. But the police did want them and, at first, told us that we would have to go in to shore and wouldn't be able to sail again until we got them. But then eventually they decided to let us go. They were onboard for at least an hour.

So now I am a bit nervous about traveling on to Spain without them, as folks back home can't seem to find where I have 'hidden' them.

But am a bit reassured by the above that Spain is less fussy. And Gibraltar, anyone know?

Then again, the ICC is only issued by some countries. So, not having access to that, what would they count as sufficient qualification? Would the Pleasure Boat Operators License, which is the only required qualification in Canada suffice? Even though you can get it with a very simple MCQ test?

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Old 21-08-2011, 11:18   #9
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Re: ICC Needed for Spain ?

As faf as I know, the 'ICC' is an EU thing and not available outside Europe. Therefore, they would require whatever their countries equivilent was.

No, never been asked in Gib' either but I have always had a British flaged vessel so maybe they only check foreign boats to that degree.
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Old 21-08-2011, 11:58   #10
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Re: ICC Needed for Spain ?

Then again, the ICC is only issued by some countries. So, not having access to that, what would they count as sufficient qualification? Would the Pleasure Boat Operators License, which is the only required qualification in Canada suffice? Even though you can get it with a very simple MCQ test?


I went through this erlier this year before I came to the Med (I am Australian).
  1. An ICC is only available to European Citizens with a European registered vessel, so anyone from outside cannot get this qualification although the RYA are looking at expanding it outside Europe through RYA qualified instructors. No idea when that will happen though.
  2. NO, a pleasure boat licence is not accepted as an equivalent. A number of other qualifications are, such as: RYA Day Skipper, RYA Coastal Skipper (which I opted for) and RYA Offshore Skipper. Other suitable qualifications such as USCG 50 or 100 ton skipper, Australian Maritime Master Class 5 etc are also obviously accepted.
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Old 21-08-2011, 12:20   #11
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Re: ICC Needed for Spain ?

A 44 is a piece of boat and you are expected to hold some sort of certificate. But I have never had mine checked while in Spain.

I guess if you make, or participate in, an accident, then they will check this one and a couple of others too.

Also, when you are sailing a Spanish flagged boat.

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Old 22-08-2011, 12:04   #12
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Re: ICC Needed for Spain ?

Hi Brownie,

So did you actually have to do a course once you got to the Med in order to meet the local requirements?

That is a real pain if you come from a country that doesn't have a requirement.

My challenge is that all my paperwork is back home, and the home team can't seem to find them.

Oh well, I am sure we shall figure something out. Maybe the RYA keeps a record of people who have done their courses?

Thanks

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Old 22-08-2011, 12:44   #13
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There is no requirement in Spain to carry any competency certification other then that which the flag country of the vessel requires. ICCs are only required from nations that themselves mandate it. Spain isn't even a signatory to Resolution 40 if my memory serves me as to do so would undermine it's own national competency certification programme.

That said the Spanish police tend to be used to asking and seeing competency certification and often have a jaundiced view if you try and explain that you don't need one.

Bring whatever cert you have from your own country.

The RYA and the ISA ( Irish Sailing Association) have both been mandated recently to offer ICCs to foreign nationals of countries that don't offer ICCs. These are English language courses The Icc can be got in a one to two day direct assessment course on your own boat.

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Old 22-08-2011, 15:16   #14
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Re: ICC Needed for Spain ?

[QUOTE=LifePart2;756653]Hi Brownie,

So did you actually have to do a course once you got to the Med in order to meet the local requirements?

Hi Noel,

No I did my course with an RYA approved organisation before I left home just in case.

If you did something back home, I would check back with the training organisation, if they are an approved organisation they almost certainly have records.

However, I would emphasise my original point, we have been through Gibraltar, Spain, France (including Corsica) and Italy this year and have not been asked for any proof of competenece anywhere.

Cheers
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Old 23-08-2011, 13:56   #15
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Re: ICC Needed for Spain ?

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Hi Brownie,

So did you actually have to do a course once you got to the Med in order to meet the local requirements?
On a charter boat, right?

You come on a foreign-flagged boat, then that flag rules what papers you need.

And if an under-trained officer in a less-than-a-sailing country claims otherwise, then I am sorry, SH, but let's not create urban legends on the forum.

If the regulation does exist, PLS quote the regulation.

Hugs,
barnie
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