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Old 13-10-2013, 17:25   #1
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How Much Should We Pay & Allow Time For?

Hi there,

We will have a new catamaran that needs to be moved from France to Bodrum Turkey in June next year to be part of a boat show.

Our aim is to take one skipper and hopefully one crew to assist and teach along the way.

Can you tell me what normal expectations are for:
  1. Time needed for safe delivery from Med side of France to Turkey
  2. Resonable Costs to pay by us for crew
  3. Best place to find the people we need and how to pick the right one
  4. Anything else that is important but I haven't mentioned (we are very new to this process and currently in Tasmania so long way from boat)

Most appreciated

the Miss
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Old 13-10-2013, 17:34   #2
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Re: How Much Should We Pay & Allow Time For?

Hi! Contact/PM Boatman61 and Atoll, on here. They do what you're asking, for living. They'll answer most of your questions, privately. Good luck!

Mauritz
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Old 13-10-2013, 17:39   #3
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Re: How Much Should We Pay & Allow Time For?

thanks - may I ask if being an office worker and teacher compared to business owner make any difference to the end price. Ours being the first two options, ordinary folk planning the big blue escape!

cheers
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Old 13-10-2013, 17:48   #4
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Re: How Much Should We Pay & Allow Time For?

Hiya Miss! Boatman61 and Atoll are very well known on here, and with good reputation. Their business dealings are fair, and they'll gladly supply you with references. They have also sailed your area of interest for years; very experienced. Take care!

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Old 13-10-2013, 17:53   #5
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Re: How Much Should We Pay & Allow Time For?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Miss View Post
Hi there,

We will have a new catamaran that needs to be moved from France to Bodrum Turkey in June next year to be part of a boat show.

Our aim is to take one skipper and hopefully one crew to assist and teach along the way.

Can you tell me what normal expectations are for:
  1. Time needed for safe delivery from Med side of France to Turkey
  2. Resonable Costs to pay by us for crew
  3. Best place to find the people we need and how to pick the right one
  4. Anything else that is important but I haven't mentioned (we are very new to this process and currently in Tasmania so long way from boat)

Most appreciated

the Miss
Homepage | Miss Catana
probably 10 days with minimal stops,though 2-3 weeks as a fast cruise,stopping a few times.
i charge 150 a day,plus flights and expenses,if taking a paid crew i pay 50 a day+flights.
the skipper will generally arrange crew that he knows to be reliable.

ideally you will have re registered the boat and have a new registration certificate.

charts,pilots i can generally arrange,as well as chart plotter etc
on board tuition,no problem

great cook as well,and fluent in french!

pm me if you need further info,have been up and down that route so many times i think i wore a groove in the ocean
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Old 13-10-2013, 18:10   #6
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It seems odd to me that Catana isn't covering the delivery cost to the boat show in which your boat is to be presented on their behalf.

I imagine some captains quote different daily rates to different owners, based on the boat and situation, but the two mentioned here should give you a fair shake. They are well thought of amongst this group.
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Old 13-10-2013, 18:19   #7
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Re: How Much Should We Pay & Allow Time For?

Hi Atoll,

Thanks for response. Sorry for my lack of understanding but do you think time required to deliver from France to Bodrum will most likely 10 days but allow 14 to 21 days which includes stopping a few times. Is this correct? 10 days seems quick!

Cost would be 200 pounds per day for two (can't find the pound key on my keyboard!)
What other costs are to be considered?

Plus organising registration once boat complete - a catana 42. Due to be complete May 2014. So I presume all paperwork will be in order.

As to gear on board this is still being determined as much will need to be purchased prior to departure and then completed once we reach Turkey.
If you go to our site you will see some info on the boat as she is being in built.

thanks again for quick response I will pass on to my husband who will be making the delivery. Mostly for now I am trying to get a realistic framework for budget and then going next step to organise a crew. We presume it won't be finalised until beginning of next year.

Kind regards

the Miss
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Old 13-10-2013, 18:26   #8
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Re: How Much Should We Pay & Allow Time For?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiveslide View Post
It seems odd to me that Catana isn't covering the delivery cost to the boat show in which your boat is to be presented on their behalf.

I imagine some captains quote different daily rates to different owners, based on the boat and situation, but the two mentioned here should give you a fair shake. They are well thought of amongst this group.
Thanks for advice, we are in discussion with Catana. The Yard are delivering the boat from Atlantic side of France to west coast and they want us to get from France to Turkey.

Catana yard yet to discuss options but it is difficult to negotiate when you have no idea of what is standard. We are very much relying on the boat agent who sold us our girl to act on our behalf, and thus far we are happy. However sometimes you don't know what you don't know and in this venture we are both out of our comfort zone. Hence looking to a forum to hear the views of more experienced souls.

It may be better to go outside of Catana...whatever way we go it is good to know of delivery crew others trust and recommend.

Cheers the Miss
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Old 13-10-2013, 18:40   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Miss View Post

Thanks for advice, we are in discussion with Catana. The Yard are delivering the boat from Atlantic side of France to west coast and they want us to get from France to Turkey.

Catana yard yet to discuss options but it is difficult to negotiate when you have no idea of what is standard. We are very much relying on the boat agent who sold us our girl to act on our behalf, and thus far we are happy. However sometimes you don't know what you don't know and in this venture we are both out of our comfort zone. Hence looking to a forum to hear the views of more experienced souls.

It may be better to go outside of Catana...whatever way we go it is good to know of delivery crew others trust and recommend.

Cheers the Miss
Oh, I'm not more experienced at buying a new boat. It just seemed odd that Catana would put that expense and responsibility on customers if it is Catana that wants your boat at the show. If they didn't need the boat I could see them just turning you loose and expecting you to figure it out.
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Old 13-10-2013, 18:52   #10
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Re: How Much Should We Pay & Allow Time For?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Miss View Post
Hi Atoll,

Thanks for response. Sorry for my lack of understanding but do you think time required to deliver from France to Bodrum will most likely 10 days but allow 14 to 21 days which includes stopping a few times. Is this correct? 10 days seems quick!

Cost would be 200 pounds per day for two (can't find the pound key on my keyboard!)
What other costs are to be considered?

Plus organising registration once boat complete - a catana 42. Due to be complete May 2014. So I presume all paperwork will be in order.

As to gear on board this is still being determined as much will need to be purchased prior to departure and then completed once we reach Turkey.
If you go to our site you will see some info on the boat as she is being in built.

thanks again for quick response I will pass on to my husband who will be making the delivery. Mostly for now I am trying to get a realistic framework for budget and then going next step to organise a crew. We presume it won't be finalised until beginning of next year.

Kind regards

the Miss
Homepage | Miss Catana
it is roughly 1500 miles,so feasibly the trip could be done in under 10 days direct with a good weather window by a delivery crew.

taking a bit longer would be more for the benifit of the owners if they are not used to long periods at sea,and also allow for overnight stops in sardinia,sicily,cape kithera,and a greek island or two,in june the weather is generally a nw wind from behind so a fast passage is to be expected.

by expenses,this would be the provisioning costs for the trip,about 10 per person per day,fuel,generally start with full tanks,and top up if needed.
and any marina costs along the way,about 35-50 a night,though would probably be free in most of the stops i mentioned.

flights are fairly cheap out of the uk,about 150-200 each way.

depending on the nature of the trip i can generally get crew who will come to gain experince and not need paying,but if it is last minute then i offer to pay as an incentive to my regular(long suffering) crew!

gear is a case of how long is a piece of string!

but a liferaft,basic safety equipment,vhf and a dinghy would be about the minimum,an epirb you may want to buy in australia and get it registered pre trip.
dock lines fenders etc

i have nothing on in may june so i would be available,i have also tought many people to sail over the years during 2 circumnavigations,and many deliveries.

if you like we can swap emails,and i can probably offer lots of advice on what to buy,and probably save you bit on the commisioning.

chers alex
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Old 13-10-2013, 20:06   #11
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Re: How Much Should We Pay & Allow Time For?

Hi Atoll Alex!

thanks for information and clearing up timing for me. All really helpful.

Our aim will be to get there as quickly and safely as possible as time is of the essence. On board will be my husband only as he is the sailor I will stay home for this leg.

Our next step will be to continue talks with Catana to look at their expectations and our needs. I would like to discuss directly with you as you have suggested =)

my email is

themiss@misscatana.com

cheers
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Old 13-10-2013, 20:10   #12
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Re: How Much Should We Pay & Allow Time For?

i will contact you by email,off to bed now as very late here!
cheers alex
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Old 13-10-2013, 20:23   #13
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Re: How Much Should We Pay & Allow Time For?

Maybe I don't quite understand the boat show aspect but from what I can tell, the manufacturer of the boat wants you to deliver the boat to a boat show in Turkey as a demo boat to show off to prospective customers?

If that is the case then they should be paying all the costs to get the boat there or you should be getting some sort of discount or consideration of some kind on the or equipment. Otherwise, why go to a lot of trouble and expense on their behalf?

Unless I was being compensated in some way (or the manufacturer was a relative or my best friend) I would take delivery of the boat, check out all the systems to make sure all was in order (yes even brand new boats have stuff that needs fixing), tell them thank you very much and sail off into the sunset.
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Old 14-10-2013, 02:18   #14
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Re: How Much Should We Pay & Allow Time For?

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Maybe I don't quite understand the boat show aspect but from what I can tell, the manufacturer of the boat wants you to deliver the boat to a boat show in Turkey as a demo boat to show off to prospective customers?

If that is the case then they should be paying all the costs to get the boat there or you should be getting some sort of discount or consideration of some kind on the or equipment. Otherwise, why go to a lot of trouble and expense on their behalf?

.
Hi
  • To be fair to Catana they have agreed to reduction in boat price in exchange for having boat in Turkey for show. (As Turkey is top of my bucket list this is appealing as an official start point)
  • Plus Catana will get back to us with quotes for there delivery captains. I would be very surprised if they don't come to the party on price....but who knows until the offer is made.
  • The boat delivery was included as part of the contract so we are obligated to have boat in Bodrum for beginning of August.
  • Finally Catana are delivering boat from La Rochelle on Atlantic side.

Hope this helps explain a little better

Cheers

the Miss
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Old 14-10-2013, 03:09   #15
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Re: How Much Should We Pay & Allow Time For?

All good info Atoll. Regarding Australian Registration, I doubt Catana or your broker will be arranging this but check with your broker to confirm. It can take some time after handover before you can sail but you can make an effort to make it as fast as possible. Contact AMSA. Inquire about provisional registration (another $1000 or so) Before registration AMSA will require the boat to be marked and all the handover and builders certificates translated from French to English by a certified translator. They will require the originals so this can add 7 days after handover to receiving your official number. After the ON is recieved the vessel needs to be marked as per AMSA regulations. After it is marked AMSA require certification which may be another 7 days express post. Provisional registration may save you 7 days as they will issue the ON so you can arrange marking signage and plates prior to delivery if the manufacturer allows you to do so. Cost of registration is around $1600 from memory. This is going from memory from 2 years ago but contact Peter Baker at AMSA to clarify. Also you will need registration before you can register the ships radio, epirb and AIS. Without registration you will not be able to transmit AIS, but will be able to recieve (assuming you have an AIS transponder)
As the boat will be sailing off Portugal you will need to check the ezuiptment requirements here and make sure all are onboard for the passage.
Equipment Requirements for Portugal | JimB Sail
Also read up on Jims reccomendations on the rest of that site. Lots of great info on sailing the Med and related rules, regulations and laws, schengan etc.
If the trip is 1500 M the amount of fuel used will depend on weather. If you motor 500 M allow about 800 euro. Will Catana be paying all delivery costs to France or just the skippers costs? If not add fuel and marinas for an additional 1500 M.
Marinas that time of year will be 150-200 euro/night for your cat.

this
"Catana yard yet to discuss options but it is difficult to negotiate when you have no idea of what is standard."
and this
" We are very much relying on the boat agent who sold us our girl to act on our behalf, and thus far we are happy "

would be huge concerns for me. Do you mean you have signed a contract to buy but you don't know what is include as standard in the agreed price? And that you don't have an options list with costs of additional options?


BTW it would be worthwhile joining the delivery from La Rochelle. Great place and great sailing from there to the Med! Also you could outfit the boat with safety gear and equipment there.

One other thing, make an expenses spreadsheet and to do checklists if you haven't already, it will make everything a bit less overwhelming.
If you need any other details just ask!

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