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Old 15-01-2016, 09:23   #16
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Re: How do U.S.cruisers deal with visas in Europe?

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Originally Posted by seaward 42 View Post
This "topic" has been already turned upside down and inside out hundred times . There is at least couple of dozen threads and hundreds of posts on CF about this. and by the way Croatia is member of EU for the last couple of years ...as far as I know.
We sailed Croatia last year 2014 - and had a great time -- it was not Schengen at that time but there was some thought that that might change. So need to check who is in Schengen and who is not.
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Old 15-01-2016, 09:31   #17
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Re: How do U.S.cruisers deal with visas in Europe?

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The five months wasn't a plan, it was an example of why a stay of over 90 days might matter. Staying in Europe for several years might well be reasonable. Staying for less than 90 days is not. From what I could see, five months would be the minimal reasonable stay, crossing in one season and returning the next.

So, another question. How do the 90 days accumulate?

If you spend a couple of weeks in a Schengen Area country, then check out, make a long voyage to another Schengen Area county, is the time in transit included in your 90 days?

First in 5 months or even 6 months you really can not see a lot. Get a couple of countries in but that is about it. You can get in and out of Schengen and make it a bit difficult to figure out at when you check out.

Read the previous on Schengen they answer a lot of the questions. But you get 90days in a 6 month period. As I said earlier we just finished our 3 summer sailing season in the Med and planning summer 4 right now. It can be done by going in and out a bit of inland non Schengen really helps.

So you sail over in May and say you arrive Portugal in June then can sail Spain north to France or some islands then to North Italy and at that time you are out of time. You have to plan plan plan and adjust to meet weather and timing.
Research -- do your research on this board as there is a lot of information on it.
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Old 15-01-2016, 10:14   #18
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Re: How do U.S.cruisers deal with visas in Europe?

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First in 5 months or even 6 months you really can not see a lot.
The five months was an example of a minimum. The same issues arrive in a longer stay.

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Read the previous on Schengen they answer a lot of the questions. But you get 90days in a 6 month period.
But nobody seems to be answering the fundamental question - when does the clock start and stop?

Trying to plan how this sort of trip might be arranged is impossible, without understanding exactly how much time is accumulated, where.

If I check in to Spain, spend a couple of weeks, check out, and cross to Italy, arriving a week or so later, and check in there, does the week in transit count against the 90 days?
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Old 15-01-2016, 10:29   #19
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Re: How do U.S.cruisers deal with visas in Europe?

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Most countries one cruises the visa is applied for and granted on arrival... exceptions are Iran, Cuba, China, USA, N Korea.. there you get locked up instead..
All of W Europe and N Med is like this.. also Turkey.. pull into the port.. take all the paper work to the HM and that's it.. cleared in for 90 days.
Interesting and accurate comparison countries most dangerous and corrupt!
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Old 15-01-2016, 12:38   #20
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Re: How do U.S.cruisers deal with visas in Europe?

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Originally Posted by Jdege View Post

But nobody seems to be answering the fundamental question - when does the clock start and stop?
I don't have direct experience, just what I've "learned" following these threads over the years because I wanted to know.

The clock starts where you first enter one of the treaty countries. There are 2 parts of the time limits to be aware of:

1 - 90 days stay in the treaty countries
2- in the past 180 days

The days don't have to be continuous.

The clock stops when your leave a country. I have read stories of getting someone who would go through a passport counting the days (bet most officials are too lazy for that except the ******* ones). I also have read of officials who didn't stamp a passport on entry just so the clock wouldn't start.

But you can't count on this and the only thing really is 90 days total stayed in the past 180 days.
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Old 15-01-2016, 12:40   #21
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Re: How do U.S.cruisers deal with visas in Europe?

To the OP,

As it has been explained to me by the immigration officers in the Azores and Portugal, the clock starts and stops when you check in and out of the country with them. You stop the clock when you check out of the country. An example would be if you check out of the Azores, have them stamp your passport as being departed, and you head for somewhere in Spain. The six or seven days under way are not part of your 90 days since you are legally checked out of the country, and thus out of the Schengen zone.

One nit, if you make landfall in Flores, Azores, your time in Flores is not counted as part of your 90 days. Since there is no immigration official on Flores, your 90 day clock doesn't start, even though you have checked in with the port captain. We spent a week in Flores before heading to Horta. The immigration official in Horta confirmed that the time in Flores was not part of our 90 days. He smiled and called it "free parking".

As to the larger question of the whole 90 days out of any 180 day period in a Schengen zone, yes it is a pain. We had some boat problems in the Azores and easily got a second 90 days by applying for an extended stay visa good only for Portugal. It was not difficult to get. I do not know if similar extensions will be available in other Mediterranean countries, but I will be finding out this summer.

Best of luck with making your decisions.

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Old 15-01-2016, 12:48   #22
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Re: How do U.S.cruisers deal with visas in Europe?

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Originally Posted by Jdege View Post

But nobody seems to be answering the fundamental question - when does the clock start and stop?
I don't have direct experience, just what I've "learned" following these threads over the years because I wanted to know.

The clock starts where you first enter one of the treaty countries. There are 2 parts of the time limits to be aware of:

1 - 90 days stay in the treaty countries
2- in the past 180 days

The days don't have to be continuous.

The clock stops when your leave a country. I have read stories of getting someone who would go through a passport counting the days (bet most officials are too lazy for that except the ******* ones). I also have read of officials who didn't stamp a passport on entry just so the clock wouldn't start.

But you can't count of this and the only thing really is 90 days total stayed in the past 180 days.
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Old 15-01-2016, 12:59   #23
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Re: How do U.S.cruisers deal with visas in Europe?

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You are the problem.. the boat is easy to sort.. coupla days out of Schengen and she's got another 18mths..
Actually the boat doesn't care about the Schengen. It's technically possible for the boat to stay legally in the Schengen indefinitely without paying VAT.

Schengen and EU are different things.

To the OP:
As another poster said, for a short term cruise without extenuating circumstances, there is no practical way to extend. If you want to stay legal, you must leave the Schengen for 90 out of 180 days (the boat can stay longer).
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Old 15-01-2016, 13:08   #24
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Re: How do U.S.cruisers deal with visas in Europe?

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But nobody seems to be answering the fundamental question - when does the clock start and stop?

Trying to plan how this sort of trip might be arranged is impossible, without understanding exactly how much time is accumulated, where.

If I check in to Spain, spend a couple of weeks, check out, and cross to Italy, arriving a week or so later, and check in there, does the week in transit count against the 90 days?
It's really simple. Look back at the last 180 days. At most you can have 90 days in the Schengen. I have our schedule on a spreadsheet and there is a column to calculate the Schengen time.

While theoretically possible, most runs won't be more than an night or two, so don't count on getting large chunks of time during passages but if I understand it correctly, if you spend any part of a day in the Schengen, that is a day used up. (ie: depart 5min before midnight and that 5min counts as a day).
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Old 15-01-2016, 14:48   #25
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Re: How do U.S.cruisers deal with visas in Europe?

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While theoretically possible, most runs won't be more than an night or two, so don't count on getting large chunks of time during passages.
Touch in Spain, then head to Norway or Greece, it's going to take me a while to get there, and if the clock was running during the trip, it'd not leave much time once I arrived.
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Old 15-01-2016, 18:40   #26
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Re: How do U.S.cruisers deal with visas in Europe?

"If you spend a couple of weeks in a Schengen Area country, then check out, make a long voyage to another Schengen Area county, is the time in transit included in your 90 days?"

I would say that time is not included. By not dead sure. Last year we went to Albania for a few weeks, loved it, but it a day sail from Corfu.

Another point re. the 18 month bit for the boat. If you store the boat ashore and habd in the Cruising log to Customs, the 18 month clock stops, in Greece anyway.
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Old 15-01-2016, 19:45   #27
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Re: How do U.S.cruisers deal with visas in Europe?

I have read reports of a few people having their passport stamped with "parole" in red. the JimB Sail website might have more about this.

As for time at sea counting, it's a fairly minor point as you can almost sail overnight from one side to the other N/S and anyhow, who wants to spend their time struggling against the Mistral in the Golfe de Leon when you can be swanning around St Tropez.

When we were in Spain and France, we assumed the marinas did all of the formalities, because we did nothing. In Italy we went to the guardia costeria but they were always shut. Finally in Greece, we checked in, sailed around for a month then dropped in for a stamp on the transit log only to be told that they original checkin was wrong and we had to do it all over again. Nowadays you don't have to make regular visits to the customs

Having said that, we were checked over by gun toting Douanes and closely followed by helicopters and patrol boats occasionally. In Corsica, marinas seem to share information and know where you've been on the island. I wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of these guys.

We have had our days counted at a small airport in Greece and I am confident that if we had hit 90 we would have been in big trouble as the official was itching to apply the law.
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Old 15-01-2016, 23:37   #28
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Re: How do U.S.cruisers deal with visas in Europe?

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Touch in Spain, then head to Norway or Greece, it's going to take me a while to get there, and if the clock was running during the trip, it'd not leave much time once I arrived.
As I said, theoretically possible.

This isn't like taking off from the Panama canal and it's weeks to the first Polynesian islands.

99% of people heading from Spain to Greece (or Norway), will have many stops in between. If they are enjoying the trip, they may follow the coast around to france then Italy before hopping across to Greece and island hopping thru Greece.

Even if they are in a bit of a rush, they can do Mallorca, to Sardinia to Sicily, to Mainland Italy to Greece never gaining more than a day.

So yes possible, it's not really a good plan if your primary goal is to gain Schengen time.
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Old 16-01-2016, 08:39   #29
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Re: How do U.S.cruisers deal with visas in Europe?

As I understand it, the only thing to remember is that your passport is the document used to count the number of days in (and out) of the Schengen zone. If you don't get it stamped as leaving for your trip to the next port, then you are still in. I don't think the immigration folks will accept anything other than your passport for counting days.

Also, days are counted as days that run from 0000-2400. If you check out on Tuesday at noon, sail to the next port, and check in the next day (Wednesday) at 1600, you are still considered as in the Schengen zone the entire time, even though you were out for 28 hours. According to the day count, you were there part of Tuesday and part of Wednesday, therefore you don't get any "credit" for having left the Schengen zone.

At present, it is a definite hardship for US sailors.

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Old 16-01-2016, 12:12   #30
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Re: How do U.S.cruisers deal with visas in Europe?

They do a similar style of day count in Greece. Port Police occasionally collect port fees, If I arrive a 8 pm on Tuesday and then leave at 6 am the next day that counts as 2 full days as I was tied up at midnight and that is when it changes from one day to another.
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