How Crazy Is Two Boats ?

[Charlie]

I have a Bluewater boat on the West Coast. I have been fixing it up for some extended cruising some time in the future. The family and I have really enjoyed the ports from Desolation Sound in Canada to La Paz Mexico. With my daughter starting high school this year we haven't been able to pull the kids out of school for our three week vacations so using the boat is harder except for the summer.

So Cal is a great place to be in the summer. I brought up sailing her to Hawaii this summer and having the Fam meet me there. They were happy with the idea but everyone (including me) really wants to go to Europe. I looked into sailing the boat thru the canal etc. and can't afford the time. I looked at trucking her across the US and then sailing across the Pond but the logistics killed that idea. I then saw that the costs of trucking and the price of buying a smaller coastal cruiser in Europe were too close to ignore.

The kids are going to both be in High School in two years and I'd like to take them for a cruise. Ok I've given up on my idea of multi year circumnavigation but the idea of 6 months in the Med one year along with three six week summer trips is feasible. In about 3 or 4 years we would sell the boat and recoup some of what we had paid for her. I know we will lose all of the $$$ that we invest in mainteance and upgrades but I can live with that.

Here's the plan in a nutshell. Use Frequent flyer miles to fly to Europe (we have enough for four trips) Buy a coastal cruiser with a named brand (beneteau, jeneau, etc). Minimize the systems on the boat so there is less maintenance, Sail thru Europe and put the boat on the hard when we are done for the year (preferably somewhere cheap), Self insure and just carry liability insurance. Sell the boat at the end of four years.

I have thought about taking on partners but only if I could find the right people. I know what to look for on the major expense items and won't buy a boat that needs those repairs.

What I am looking for is help with creating a pros and cons list. The collective intelligence here is great so if you people could throw out pros and cons I'd love to hear them.

[Bash]

given that you're talking about keeping the boat fairly stock, wouldn't it make more sense to buy a boat and put it into charter? That way the boat pays for itself while you're not using it, and you can structure your investment as a business.

[boatman61]

If you can afford it its an awesome idea... over 4 summers you could visit a fair bit of whats worth seeing from the awesome Fjords of Norway right down to Turkey... and a cash return at the end... go for it

[captain58sailin]

What about leasing or chartering a second vessel.

[zeehag]

i own 2 boats--unless you're wealthy financially, isnt feasible--might be best to rent the other or charter or what--is so pricy to keep 2 boats anywhere. good luck.
know anyone wanting to buy an ericson 35mII????? in socal????? i havent found anyone in 4 yrs.. good luck with your venture... hope it comes together for ye.

[S/V Alchemy]

I have kept my first boat (a 1973 Viking 33 racer-cruiser) on Lake Ontario while I am fitting out a 41 foot steel pilothouse cutter for distance cruising. I share the Viking to cut costs, but nothing feels better after a day of painting or installing or sanding or building on the steel boat on the hard than a couple of hours at sunset blasting around Lake Ontario.

It's still cheaper than owning a car.

[Charlie]

Originally Posted by Bash

given that you're talking about keeping the boat fairly stock, wouldn't it make more sense to buy a boat and put it into charter? That way the boat pays for itself while you're not using it, and you can structure your investment as a business.

At the end of owning a charter boat you are in debt a fairly big number. I have enough for a down payment on a boat like that (i.e. moorings) but I don't want to have the monthly payments or take out the loan. I'm envisioning a boat that needs some TLC.

Originally Posted by boatman61

If you can afford it its an awesome idea... over 4 summers you could visit a fair bit of whats worth seeing from the awesome Fjords of Norway right down to Turkey... and a cash return at the end... go for it

I think it would work well. I'm trying to shoot holes in the idea and find some problems.

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

What about leasing or chartering a second vessel.

Originally Posted by zeehag

i own 2 boats--unless you're wealthy financially, isnt feasible--might be best to rent the other or charter or what--is so pricy to keep 2 boats anywhere. good luck.
know anyone wanting to buy an ericson 35mII????? in socal????? i havent found anyone in 4 yrs.. good luck with your venture... hope it comes together for ye.

If that Ericson was in Spain I'd be all over it.

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

I have kept my first boat (a 1973 Viking 33 racer-cruiser) on Lake Ontario while I am fitting out a 41 foot steel pilothouse cutter for distance cruising. I share the Viking to cut costs, but nothing feels better after a day of painting or installing or sanding or building on the steel boat on the hard than a couple of hours at sunset blasting around Lake Ontario.

It's still cheaper than owning a car.

If I could find the right partner to buy the boat it would be great. My cousin is interested but wants to see the boat first.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by Charlie

If I could find the right partner to buy the boat it would be great. My cousin is interested but wants to see the boat first.

I haven't attempted to sell a half-share. I have attempted to get half of the annual costs in return for designated days of use. This is half the dock fee and half the insurance. I retain full ownership, but I also repair what wears out and do the typical maintenance. What the other guy does is leave the boat as he found it and replace gas (it's a Atomic 4 inboard) and oil as needed/empty the holding tank, etc.

If he wants to "improve" things, that's going to be on him. The boat is currently largely stripped out (no running water, but a working head and bottles of lake water and sanitizer). There's limited scope to put in amenities, so it's basically "camping conditions" if he wants to take it down the lake.

On the other hand, she sails really well divested of most of the crap cruisers carry...so it's a win if you can "rough it" for up to a week (docking at marinas helps!)

[PamlicoTraveler]

Anything that involves sharing a boat is a bad idea in my book. I would always go for a lessor boat.

[swagman]

Hi Charlie,
Good luck with the plan. It's obviously a buyers market almost anywhere right now.
If anything you find is close to UK south coast (where I am) and you would like someone to give it a quick view before investing money in flying over, send me a pm.
I'm not involved in the boat broking scene so no ulterior motive - just owned a few in my lifetime and happy to help a fellow site user:-)
Cheers
JOHN

[boatman61]

Although Europe is in the main more expensive than the US re purhase... there is the compensation af a huge variety of 'blue water possibles' courtesy of the differing countries style and climactic conditions...
Don't restrict yourself to 'Beneteau's etc;'.... if your prepared to compromise there's excellent sailing/live aboards for the taking at reasonable prices...
But take this with a pinch of salt... I'm a 'Brit'.... we're used to small and pokey... but we do get around huh...!!
Not being cheeky... honest..

[Charlie]

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

I haven't attempted to sell a half-share. I have attempted to get half of the annual costs in return for designated days of use. This is half the dock fee and half the insurance. I retain full ownership, but I also repair what wears out and do the typical maintenance. What the other guy does is leave the boat as he found it and replace gas (it's a Atomic 4 inboard) and oil as needed/empty the holding tank, etc.

If he wants to "improve" things, that's going to be on him. The boat is currently largely stripped out (no running water, but a working head and bottles of lake water and sanitizer). There's limited scope to put in amenities, so it's basically "camping conditions" if he wants to take it down the lake.

On the other hand, she sails really well divested of most of the crap cruisers carry...so it's a win if you can "rough it" for up to a week (docking at marinas helps!)

That is a good idea Alchemy. Rather then having an ownership partner just a partner that helps with the expenses and then gets a certain number of days of sailing privleges(sp).

Originally Posted by PamlicoTraveler

Anything that involves sharing a boat is a bad idea in my book. I would always go for a lessor boat.

35' is the bottom end of the size boat that will fit my family with comfort so going to a smaller boat doesn't work.

Originally Posted by swagman

Hi Charlie,
Good luck with the plan. It's obviously a buyers market almost anywhere right now.
If anything you find is close to UK south coast (where I am) and you would like someone to give it a quick view before investing money in flying over, send me a pm.
I'm not involved in the boat broking scene so no ulterior motive - just owned a few in my lifetime and happy to help a fellow site user:-)
Cheers
JOHN

Swagman I did see one in Devon but I think it has been sold. Thanks for the offer I'll keep it in mind.

Originally Posted by boatman61

Although Europe is in the main more expensive than the US re purhase... there is the compensation af a huge variety of 'blue water possibles' courtesy of the differing countries style and climactic conditions...
Don't restrict yourself to 'Beneteau's etc;'.... if your prepared to compromise there's excellent sailing/live aboards for the taking at reasonable prices...
But take this with a pinch of salt... I'm a 'Brit'.... we're used to small and pokey... but we do get around huh...!!
Not being cheeky... honest..

I'll give some thought to off brand boats but since the idea is to sell it at the end of four years I believe the best way to do that is to have a recognizable brand name.

[Wand]

Europe's overcrowded and full of old buildings. You can get a nice boat cheap here and keep it on chain moorings for $165 per year at our club. And when you anchor in a pristine bay, it's only you and the pelicans. Sorry, no Rembrandt though...

[goboatingnow]

Look at buying a stock beneteau or jeanneau or perhaps a Hanse or Bavaria. Don't buy anything wierd . These are the biggest sector of the Market., lots to choose from and pricing is competitive. If your prepared and financially able to fund 50 to. 70k then it should be ok. You don't need a fixer upper. In my opinion France Spain Italy are cheaper then the UK. Marina spaces in the med are hard to find especially in the popular areas but a bit of legwork you will find them.

The other thing to bear in mind is that legally non EU nationals can only visit schlengen( most of western Europe) countries for 90 days in 180 totalled over all the countries. The UK and Ireland are outside the area so you can stay there longer.

If you buy now at close to the bottom of the Market it should be a good place to sell in a few years. You will need to consider getting an ICC as well

Dave

[capn_billl]

I think it is a good idea. I've heard of people house trading to move when it wasn't practical to sell. Maybe we could setup a boat trading site.