Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-11-2013, 03:19   #61
Registered User
 
athene's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Adriatic and Inland France (summer); New Forest, UK (winter)
Boat: Oyster 435 cutter-rigged ketch and Nowee 38 motor yacht
Posts: 303
Re: Greek Tax !!!!!!

I don't think I'd like to be a Greek port police officer when all the skippers who have laid up in Greece for the winter return next year to find they've suddenly become subject to a significant unexpected tax.

It's cleverly framed not to penalise Greek private vessels (the vast majority of which are motor boats under 12 metres) and charter operations (who get a 50 per cent reduction). The government's argument, of course, is that most surrounding countries levy various forms of tax, e.g. Croatia, Italy, Montenegro and Turkey. The difference is (I'm afraid to say) that most Greek harbours provide absolutely nothing for the money, whereas in their competitor countries visiting yachts at least get a modicum of facilities, even if there are notable exceptions.

It wouldn't be so bad if this money was going to be reinvested in general harbour infrastructure to e.g. repair broken mooring rings, install water and electricity points, clear old mooring chains and blocks, refurbish quays, even maybe put in laid moorings etc, but sadly that's highly unlikely.

I fear the net result of this tax will be a boost to government revenues at the expense of hundreds of Greek businesses that depend on cruisers for survival, since many cruisers (as some of the postings here show) will bypass Greece or simply spend less time there.

In 2013 many taverna owners and other businesses in cruising areas were already complaining about reduced trade - they may (for no fault of their own) find 2014 marks the start of some even tougher years to come.
__________________

__________________
Athene of Lymington and Cheyenne of Lymington
athene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2013, 03:21   #62
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Port Welshpool Australia
Boat: sold swan new cat under construction / Canados 50s
Posts: 755
Images: 16
Send a message via Skype™ to beneteau-500
Re: Greek Tax !!!!!!

And what you will find happening next yr will be Yachts coming across from turkey into greek waters will be checked more Thoroughly as quiet a few yachts will anchor in a bay like a Pedie on the Island Of symi and around Mandraki Kastelhorizon with out checking In and on kastelhorizon the radar system used there by the military has been upgraded
__________________

__________________
beneteau-500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2013, 04:15   #63
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Med.. currently Greece
Boat: Oyster 45
Posts: 364
Re: Greek Tax !!!!!!

We would have wintered in Greece next year and paid for haul out/ antifoul.
Now we would not.
Why should I pay 700 euros over 6 months plus the marina costs. It would be far too expensive. I should imagine many will do the same and go to other nearby countries where you do not have to pay a tax for just sitting there.
This will certainly mean many boating associated trades going under.
__________________
If it works you did it right, if it doesn't you did it wrong.https://www.cygnus3.com/
Nostrodamus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2013, 05:07   #64
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Port Welshpool Australia
Boat: sold swan new cat under construction / Canados 50s
Posts: 755
Images: 16
Send a message via Skype™ to beneteau-500
Re: Greek Tax !!!!!!

well why not set up a poll on here and vote how many yachties are willing to pay this new cruising tax and lets see how many will now not sail in greek waters and how many will leave
__________________
beneteau-500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2013, 05:33   #65
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Med.. currently Greece
Boat: Oyster 45
Posts: 364
Re: Greek Tax !!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by beneteau-500 View Post
well why not set up a poll on here and vote how many yachties are willing to pay this new cruising tax and lets see how many will now not sail in greek waters and how many will leave
The trouble is it is a law that has been passed but no one understands how it will be implemented.
I may pay for several months in summer when you can actually sail but I would not want to pay in winter when conditions prevented me from going anywhere.
From what I can see you also don't have to pay if your boat is out the water.
At the moment there are too many if's and buts.
It has just been passed to appease the EU so it can get it's money from them but I don't know if they understand what they have passed.
It seems to be a general thing and none of the implication decisions have been made.
__________________
If it works you did it right, if it doesn't you did it wrong.https://www.cygnus3.com/
Nostrodamus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2013, 06:32   #66
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,440
Re: Greek Tax !!!!!!

Nobody likes taxes. Especially wealthy Greeks and Italians, who are famous for not paying. Decades of people not paying their taxes makes people who aren't paying confident, and makes anyone who is paying feel like an idiot.

The most famous story in Greece is that they implemented a tax on pools, but in the Athens area only 324 people were admitting to having pools, out of over 16,000 estimated actual pools.

The problem is that nobody in Greece wants to pay taxes, but the people expect European-style benefits. You can't have both.

So yes, the problem is bigger than a few yachts.

Is it worth paying the yacht tax and in order to cruise in Greece? It's up to the cruisers themselves. I guess if I were in Greece on a boat I wouldn't want to pay this tax, either, but I do love sailing in Greece. You have to look at the overall costs, not simply the principle of paying a tax. It may be that you still come out ahead.
__________________
letsgetsailing3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2013, 07:48   #67
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Baltic Sea / Kiel Canal
Posts: 286
Re: Greek Tax !!!!!!

donīt hit me, but to me some are complaining on a very high level.
...Owners of Oyster, Swan, CC..and so on...
__________________
Tellus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2013, 07:51   #68
Registered User
 
athene's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Adriatic and Inland France (summer); New Forest, UK (winter)
Boat: Oyster 435 cutter-rigged ketch and Nowee 38 motor yacht
Posts: 303
Re: Greek Tax !!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tellus View Post
donīt hit me, but to me some are complaining on a very high level.
...Owners of Oyster, Swan, CC..and so on...
So it's even worse than we thought. Greece is going to lose the big spenders ...
__________________
Athene of Lymington and Cheyenne of Lymington
athene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2013, 07:59   #69
Registered User
 
athene's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Adriatic and Inland France (summer); New Forest, UK (winter)
Boat: Oyster 435 cutter-rigged ketch and Nowee 38 motor yacht
Posts: 303
Re: Greek Tax !!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nostrodamus View Post
The trouble is it is a law that has been passed but no one understands how it will be implemented.
I may pay for several months in summer when you can actually sail but I would not want to pay in winter when conditions prevented me from going anywhere.
From what I can see you also don't have to pay if your boat is out the water.
At the moment there are too many if's and buts.
It has just been passed to appease the EU so it can get it's money from them but I don't know if they understand what they have passed.
It seems to be a general thing and none of the implication decisions have been made.
Unfortunately (although the article as translated by Google isn't exactly crystal clear) that may or may not be a false assumption. The Article refers to 'ships and small boats, regardless of their flag, sailing, moored or anchored in Greek territorial waters'. Does a laid up yacht count as 'moored or anchored'? I wouldn't bet against the Greek authorities interpreting any ambiguities in their own favour rather than that of cruising yacht owners.
__________________
Athene of Lymington and Cheyenne of Lymington
athene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2013, 08:10   #70
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Port Welshpool Australia
Boat: sold swan new cat under construction / Canados 50s
Posts: 755
Images: 16
Send a message via Skype™ to beneteau-500
Re: Greek Tax !!!!!!

well i arrived back in naxos last night and have just spent the day going through a pile of mail and strike me dead i got my annual property tax bill of which is late in paying and water/elec bill my normal Naxos and sth Aegean prefecture bill is 1500 euros per yr but they have raised it this year by 14% which is now 1710 euros as i was late in payment i got a wait for it 100 % fine of total amount out standing and talking to my neighbours this morning right at this moment tax inspectors are doing the rounds on all the hotels and rental apparments and i believe they have found 57% of the business have failed to declare the full tax earnings and so far 2 business which have about 30 holiday units between them have had there property's confiscated of to the local cafe tonight so will be able to find out more but one thing i have found out about the cruising tax is that agents are to be set up for the collection a bit like turkey so that will add more fees
__________________
beneteau-500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2013, 08:27   #71
Registered User
 
athene's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Adriatic and Inland France (summer); New Forest, UK (winter)
Boat: Oyster 435 cutter-rigged ketch and Nowee 38 motor yacht
Posts: 303
Re: Greek Tax !!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by beneteau-500 View Post
... but one thing i have found out about the cruising tax is that agents are to be set up for the collection a bit like turkey so that will add more fees
Thanks for that useful post. Can you add anything after your visit to the cafe (assuming the tax inspectors haven't closed it by the time you get there) to help with Nostrodamus' query - i.e. does time on the hard standing count as being 'moored or anchored' in the country?

It's of interest to me too, since it would be useful to know if I'm expected to cough up €650 as soon as I arrive back in Preveza next May.

Obviously, as Tellus opines above, it won't cause you as a Swan 65 owner or me as an Oyster 435 owner any financial distress. Like me, you probably light your cigars with €100 notes ...
__________________
Athene of Lymington and Cheyenne of Lymington
athene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2013, 08:27   #72
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Greece
Posts: 7
Re: Greek Tax !!!!!!

by the way, here is Greek Minister of shipping pages on twitter and facebook, just in case you want to tell him how you feel

[URL="https://twitter.com/MVarvitsiotis"]

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Miltiadis-Varvitsiotis/11826062300
__________________
nickmilon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2013, 08:43   #73
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,440
Re: Greek Tax !!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tellus View Post
donīt hit me, but to me some are complaining on a very high level.
...Owners of Oyster, Swan, CC..and so on...
I noticed that.
__________________
letsgetsailing3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2013, 08:49   #74
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,440
Re: Greek Tax !!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by athene View Post
So it's even worse than we thought. Greece is going to lose the big spenders ...
If they're really big spenders, will a few hundred euro change their plans?

Won't they spend that in order to move their boat somewhere else?

It's true they might move on the principle that they hate the word "tax", but the Med is truly a beautiful place. I think Italy and Greece will still have sailboats, though this might free up some marina space.
__________________
letsgetsailing3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2013, 08:52   #75
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 8,564
Images: 14
Re: Greek Tax !!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 View Post
If they're really big spenders, will a few hundred euro change their plans?

Won't they spend that in order to move their boat somewhere else?
No, in fact the opposite, they will have the nice places to themselves after the great unwashed upsticks and move.

Pete
__________________

__________________
Moody 31 - April Lass
Pete7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
Greece, water, yacht

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thrane and Thrane Fishery Capsat steve.garlick Marine Electronics 10 20-07-2017 10:26
One More Question About Personal Property Tax capcook Dollars & Cents 27 25-04-2012 13:26



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:21.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.