Greek Tax! - MERGED 4 THREADS

[athene]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Look at article 5 and the top of the currency column. It shows the euro symbol.
Google Translate

I refer you to 'Information for Boaters' (http://www.marinadalmacija.hr/en/pdf...ers%202013.pdf), compiled by Branimir Mađer, who is head of the Tourism section of the Greek Chambers of Commerce, which shows that the Croatian sojourn tax (as for the new navigation tax) is calculated in HRK not Euros.

Your other points are matters of opinion, but this one is a matter of fact.

Anyway, this is my last posting here on this subject, since it doesn't really belong in this thread but the one below.

[Barra]

Originally Posted by hoppy

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I had my boat at one Greek marina a couple of years ago which was much less than half full over winter and never seem to be full over summer.

To generate more income, they decided to substantially increase the mooring rate. I was already planning to leave to another part of Greece and left just as the new rate was kicking in. When I went to my boat that June, with the exception of the area where the local charter boats were based, the marina had less boats than they had over the winter.

There was speculation that the Greek owners were trying to bankrupt the marina so they could sell to debt free to a "mate", but then again the owner might have been an ignorant moron

But I guess a few marinas are Turkish owned, so maybe that will follow the market, but Greek owned I still think hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

We saw marina and hard stand prices move around by as much as 25% as winter approached this year and they tried to fill up. I think your example was definitely part of the currupt greece this new tax is trying in part to pay for. It will do more damage to the cruising economy than it will raise though imho

And yes the Italians will go to croatia this year instead and that alone will halve the visiting boats let alone all the poms like athena who winter their boats there and will now probably move to turkey.

[athene]

Originally Posted by athene

Brett, you could put your views directly to the Minister at info@mvarvitsiotis.gr. I've done so in support of the Cruising Association's own submission. If you want more ammo, my own broadside is at https://www.dropbox.com/s/b2gtt83d9t...%20Dec-13.docx.

GORDON

Mr Varvitsiotis doesn't seem to have updated the email address on his website, so I've been getting repeated bouncebacks.

I've now emailed to the Ministry itself (contact@yna.gov.gr), which seems to be a valid address.

[beneteau-500]

the latest news and data they have collected. Greek marinas association is that up to 30,000 boats will leave greek waters mainly poms, Germans and Italians and french boats make up this number and they stated most are heading to Croatia or turkey,

the greek marinas association are starting to crank up the unions on this new tax

[Trim50]

New Greek Cruising Tax

A new Greek Cruising law, in effect from 1 January 2014, introduces a tax on leisure boats over 7m LOA afloat in Greek waters.

Although the law is in force, its method of implementation is still not clear. The CA is negotiating with the Greek Department of Shipping and Aegean Sea to clarify how the law will be applied, and to obtain concessions from some unacceptable features. Our opening email to the Greek Ministry negotiations is attached.

Our view of the effect of the law may not be the same as the actual implementation. It is: The fee is payable for boats afloat from 1st January, 2014. It will cover one calendar year's stay.

Vessels above 12m LOA have the option to pay one month at a time (whether calendar or any 30 days is not clear).

Amounts are: 7m - 8m €200
Above 8m – 10m €300
Above 10m – 12m €400
Above 12m €100/metre

The registration document LOA will be used for calculating fees.

Vessels over 12m have two options to reduce costs; pay €10 per metre for the month ahead, or be “permanently based” in Greece and obtain a 30% discount from the annual fee. So 12.7m LOA will pay €1,270 pa (discounted by 30% if applicable) or €127 per month Receipts for fees must be carried with ship's papers, and may be asked for at any time. The receipt is valid for the whole period of pre-payment, and remains valid if the boat leaves Greek waters and returns later. Rebates are not payable for periods out of Greek waters. “Electronic” payment will be possible annually in December for the following year, or on entry into Greek waters, either through tax offices, or through port police offices.

When arriving in a port of entry, EU boats obtaining a DEKPA, and non-EU boats obtaining a Transit Log, can pay cash on arrival. Boats already afloat in Greece on 1 Jan on any year will need to pay at their local tax office or port authority to remain in Greece. If a receipt can't be produced on request, the boat can be detained until a full fee has been paid, plus a 100% penalty fee.

Notes.

1. The proposed law is the result of two years of negotiations between opposing points of view; tourism interests, versus taxation needs. Strong objections have been voiced within Greece by a consortium of marina owners, but this appears to have been ineffective. We must expect this tax to be implemented. It could be challenged through European courts on the grounds that it breaks rules concerning "visiting means of tranport". However, this may have undesirable side effects, since Greece does not (currently) insist that its own regulations apply to boats staying in Greece longer than 180 days - a valuable concession.

2. The first paragraph of the law apparently conflicts with UNCLOS lll, the right of innocent passage. We have drawn the attention of the British Foreign Office to this. It is probably an un-intended consequence, rather than an intention, but it must be corrected.

3. The CA is seeking clarifications of the law, and concessions for categories of sailors most affected. A draft of the letter and email sent to the Ministry of Maritime and Aegean is attached. We are working with other national sailing organisations in order to obtain these concessions. The need for concessions for boats currently afloat in Greece is already recognised.

4. We recommend that individuals affected by this law email their yards, marinas, or the Greek embassy. In addition to any personal views you have, please repeat any of the points made in our email which are relevant to your circumstances. This will assist our negotiations. Your planning should not rely on such concessions being granted!

5. It is possible that implementation of this tax will lead to questions about how much time you (personally) spend in Greece. People planning to spend more than 182 days per 365 days in Greece are, by EU definition, tax residents of Greece.

[boatman61]

Sheesh... How small are brains... the only thing in the Med is Greece...
Come on mate.. look at a Friggin Atlas and stop stirring the **** about a few rocks in the water... its the last country in Mediterranean Europe going East.. personally... not worth the effort
But if your keeping a boat there... its a holiday home

[Trim50]

I'm certainly not your mate...now take your hand off my my butt.

[boatman61]

LOLOL....
Can't beat Aussie humour..

[holland]

This is not the only problem area we seen in the world lately, guess l stay nicely in the Pacific Northwest.

[Trim50]

My concern is the trend. I hear Turkey is planning to do the same thing. Soon, you will have to leave your Amex at the Border of every country you sail through.

[Barra]

This new tax has been well discussed in the destinations forums already and basically the upshot of it is no one really knows how it will be implemented so good luck if your boat (like mine) is already there. If its not then probably wise to avoid Greece till the dust settles or you have deep pockets.

Not the only country in the med thats true but kinda hard to get to turkey without transiting through greek waters to get there...

[chuckr]

we are an american boat and sailed over last may -- and sailing the med is most interesting but it is difficult -- there is the schengren agreement then changing anchoring regulations where the cruising guide says ok to anchor but then being told that anchoring is only allowed if all the marina slips or mooring balls are full - then mooring balls filling what use to be anchoring locations (and most balls were empty) - but now the greeks --

we are in tunisia and had planned to head to tunis to try and get a long term visa for a winterover i greece -- and sail greece 2 summers - then on to turkey - we voted and made our reservations for tunisia for next year - we want to go to turkey and right now it is a very long sail to get there with the new greek law -

it really seems the eu med countries are trying to do all they can to discourage boating here - but that is just our opinion and others may think otherwise

[Barra]

No i reckon you have hit it pretty succinctly chukr!

You brought back memories of beating upwind to an anchorage listed in the pilot only to find it bouyed off for swimmers, taken with occupied bouys, suddenly a new marine park etc. too many times !!! Real pain in the arse when its just getting on dark too.

The interesting thing though is you forget all that (until you get reminded) and only remember the good times. The authorities are definitely an impediment though not an attraction!

[jckb]

Originally Posted by beneteau-500

the latest news and data they have collected. Greek marinas association is that up to 30,000 boats will leave greek waters mainly poms, Germans and Italians and french boats make up this number and they stated most are heading to Croatia or turkey,

the greek marinas association are starting to crank up the unions on this new tax

Let's see now. Uk surveys show about 7,000 boat owners base their craft overseas. It's very unlikely that more than a quarter of those are in Greece . . . So, who do the other 28,000 belong to?


and, errm, how many Greek marinas are there? And how big? Enough to hold 30,000 foreigners, plus all th Greek owned boats?


And Greece expects to raise 20,000,000 euros from their entire boat park. If that's an average of 500 euros a boat, that implies a total boat park of 40,000


Some very dodgy figures being quoted by the marinas, or being misquoted, by an order of x 10 . . .

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by beneteau-500

the latest news and data they have collected. Greek marinas association is that up to 30,000 boats will leave greek waters mainly poms, Germans and Italians and french boats make up this number and they stated most are heading to Croatia or turkey,

the greek marinas association are starting to crank up the unions on this new tax

Wonderful news. Thanks for letting us know. I can't hardly wait to get back to the empty harbors and village quays. It's going to be a great year.