Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-12-2013, 10:55   #211
Registered User
 
athene's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Adriatic and Inland France (summer); New Forest, UK (winter)
Boat: Oyster 435 cutter-rigged ketch and Nowee 38 motor yacht
Posts: 303
re: Greek Tax! - MERGED 4 THREADS

Quote:
Originally Posted by NornaBiron View Post
I am reading more and more different interpretations of this law, both in this thread and here New tax for foreign yachts based in Greece from 1st January 2014????

We are liveaboards who live on the hook and are committed to a few months of next year in Greece. Our policy is to wait and see what happens. We sincerely hope that we do not have to fork out €1500 for 3 months on the hook and 1 months cruising through on our way out!
I think you're better off sticking to this forum (having looked at the ybw.com forum). Without wishing to sound patronising, you do get a better quality of discussion here, which generally stays on subject and doesn't descend into mutual ego-bashing.

I've emailed our boatyard, Cleopatra Marina in Preveza, for clarification on the effects of the tax on foreign visiting - and especially laid up - boats and I'll post their answer here if it's in the least illuminating.
__________________

__________________
Athene of Lymington and Cheyenne of Lymington
athene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 12:00   #212
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
re: Greek Tax! - MERGED 4 THREADS

Quote:
I've emailed our boatyard, Cleopatra Marina in Preveza, for clarification on the effects of the tax on foreign visiting - and especially laid up - boats and I'll post their answer here if it's in the least illuminating.
did a delivery in there last year , nice place. my friend who lives in greece has a boat there too.
__________________

__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 01:59   #213
Marine Service Provider
 
NornaBiron's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Greece
Boat: Custom steel cutter, 15m
Posts: 644
re: Greek Tax! - MERGED 4 THREADS

Quote:
Originally Posted by athene View Post
I think you're better off sticking to this forum (having looked at the ybw.com forum). Without wishing to sound patronising, you do get a better quality of discussion here, which generally stays on subject and doesn't descend into mutual ego-bashing.

I've emailed our boatyard, Cleopatra Marina in Preveza, for clarification on the effects of the tax on foreign visiting - and especially laid up - boats and I'll post their answer here if it's in the least illuminating.
Not in the least patronising, I completely agree! There are, however, a couple of knowledeable Greek people who contribute to that site and not this one so I'll keep reading just in case they post something useful. (It's sometimes amusing to watch certain contributers 'get their knickers in a twist'!)
__________________
Sail repairs by cruisers for cruisers
NornaBiron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 09:23   #214
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: UK winter, Greece summer
Boat: Charter vessels!
Posts: 314
re: Greek Tax! - MERGED 4 THREADS

Posters on this thread may not be aware that two taxes affect boat owners who are Greek tax residents (ie, people who spend more than 182 days per 365 in Greece).

1. A tax which boats afloat in Greek waters must pay (which is what most of this fuss is about)
2. A tax on the benefit Greek tax residents receive if they own boats (a tax on imputed income, also called a wealth tax)

People who aren't Greek tax residents don't pay (2), so visitors have an easier time than locals. And in conversation with locals, you should check if they're talking about one, the other, or both of these taxes!
__________________
jckb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 11:50   #215
Registered User
 
miyagimoon's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Any Where there is Blue Water
Boat: Oyster 435 - Miyagi Moon
Posts: 79
Send a message via Skype™ to miyagimoon
re: Greek Tax! - MERGED 4 THREADS

Quote:
Originally Posted by athene View Post
I think you're better off sticking to this forum (having looked at the ybw.com forum). Without wishing to sound patronising, you do get a better quality of discussion here, which generally stays on subject and doesn't descend into mutual ego-bashing.
+1, 100%
__________________
miyagimoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 03:50   #216
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Greece
Boat: Jeanneau 43DS
Posts: 163
re: Greek Tax! - MERGED 4 THREADS

For those who have not seen this elsewhere this is the SSD tax in English. I hope cut and paste will not destroy the format.





GOVERNMENT GAZETTE
OF THE HELLENIC REPUBLIC
ISSUE A’ Sheet No. 256
28th November 2013
[.........]
Thirteenth article
Stay and sail duty (SSD) imposed on leisure vessels and small vessels

1. A special duty named “Stay and Sail Duty” (SSD) in favour of the State is hereby enacted, which is imposed on: a) all leisure vessels, both private and professional, b) motorized small boats of a total length of seven (7) meters or longer, and c) professional day-trip tourist boats of a total length of seven (7) meters or longer.

The SSD is imposed on all the aforementioned boats and small vessels, irrespective of their flag, which sail through, dock or anchor in Greek territorial waters.

2. The SSD is calculated on a yearly basis and applies from January 1st until December 31st of each year and is determined as follows:

a. With regard to vessels of a total length ranging from seven (7) meters to (and including) eight (8) meters, it shall be two hundred (200) Euros.

b. With regard to vessels of a total length ranging from over eight (8) meters to (and including) ten (10) meters, it shall be three hundred (300) Euros.

c. With regard to vessels of a total length ranging from over ten (10) meters to (and including) twelve (12) meters, it shall be four hundred (400) Euros.

d. With regard to vessels of a total length of over twelve (12) meters, it shall be as follows: i) one hundred (100) Euros per meter per year, calculated from the first meter or ii) ten (10) Euros per meter per month, calculated from the first meter. As far as professional leisure vessels and professional day-trip tourist boats are concerned, the aforementioned charge is reduced to half, on the condition that such boats are used exclusively for professional purposes.

3. Provided that the boats mentioned in section d’ of paragraph 2 of the present are permanently docked within the Greek Territory, a thirty percent (30%) discount is granted. The criteria for and the way of proving such permanent docking, in order to benefit from such discount, as well as every necessary detail to implement the present paragraph shall be determined by virtue of a relevant decision by the Minister of Shipping and the Aegean Sea.

4. In order to calculate the SSD, the total length of the boat or the small vessel in question is taken into account, which is mentioned in the nationality document or the seaworthiness certificate or the measurement certificate or the license to perform sails.

5.a. The SSD is paid by electronic means in the following manner:

(i) with regard to boats or small vessels that are located in the Greek Territory, during the month December of each year, which payment corresponds to the SSD of the next year.

(ii) with regard to boats or small vessels that will enter the Greek Territory, prior to or upon their entry.

b. Alternatively, the SSD can be paid in the following manner:

(i) With regard to boats or small vessels under a flag of a member state of the European Union which enter the Greek Territory, to the Harbor Authority issuing the Traffic Document (DEKPA – Entry-Exit Log Book).

(ii) With regard to boats or small vessels under a flag of a non-EU member state which enter the Greek Territory, to the Customs Authority issuing the Transit Log.

(iii) With regard to boats or small vessels which are already within the Greek Territory at the time the present article enters into force, irrespective of their flag, to the competent Tax Office or the Harbor Authority.

c. The SSD payment receipt is kept along with the boat’s or the small vessel’s shipping documents and is presented to the competent Harbor, Customs and Tax Authorities upon request.

d. In case during the relevant inspection by the competent Harbor, Customs or Tax Authorities it is ascertained that the SSD has not been paid, the boat or the small vessel will not be allowed to depart until the SSD is paid in accordance with the provisions of sections a’ and b’ of the present. Every time it is ascertained that the SSD has not been paid, a fine is imposed, which is equal to one hundred percent (100%) of the annually corresponding SSD, without any discount.

6. In case the boat or the small vessel departs from the Greek Territory for any reason whatsoever at any time prior to the expiration of the SSD, then no claim against the State may be raised concerning the refund of any amount.

In case the boat or the small vessel reenters the Greek Territory during the time the SSD is valid, then it is not required to pay the SSD again, for as long as it is valid and in force.

7.a. The party liable to pay the SSD is: a) the professional leisure vessel’s or the professional day-trip tourist boat’s ship-owner or their lawful representative, b) the private leisure vessel’s ship-owner or possessor or user and c) the small boat’s ship-owner or possessor or user. All those mentioned above are jointly and severally liable to pay the SSD.

b. The issues concerning the certification, the inspection and the issuance of assessing deeds are governed by the applicable provisions.

The manner and the procedure for the collection of the SSD, as well as any other issue related to the implementation of the present shall be regulated by virtue of a decision by the Ministers of Finance and Shipping and the Aegean Sea.

8. For the purposes of implementing the provisions of the present article, the terms used shall have the respective meanings attributed to them:

a. Leisure vessel: any vessel of a total length of seven (7) meters or longer, when it comes to sailing vessels, and twelve (12) meters or longer when it comes to motorized vessels, whose general construction allow them to be used for the performance of leisure trips.

b. Professional leisure vessel: the leisure vessel with a capacity to carry up to forty nine (49) passengers, which is equipped with sufficient and appropriate living quarters specifically for passengers, for whose exploitation a full charter agreement is concluded.

c. Private leisure vessel: the leisure vessel, which is not a professional one, pursuant to the provisions of section b’ of the present paragraph.

d. Small boat: any vessel of a total length of up to seven (7) meters, when it comes to sailing vessels, and up to twelve (12) meters when it comes to motorized vessels, which is used for leisure purposes.

e. Professional day-trip tourist boat: the small vessel or the leisure boat or the passenger tourist boat under the flag of a member state of the European Union or the European Economic Area, which performs daily sea trips during one 24-hour period between ports, coasts and coves of the Greek Territory, which is entitled to extend its trip abroad, upon the payment of a uniform individual ticket or a group ticket, which is accompanied by a passenger name list.

9. The SSD shall be imposed for staying in the Greek Territory as from 01/01/2014.

Fourteenth article
Entry into force

The present law shall enter into force as soon as it is published to the Government Gazette.

We are requesting the publication of the present to the Government Gazette and the enforcement thereof as a law of the State.

Athens, 26th November 2013

THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC
Mr. Karolos Gr. PAPOULIAS

THE MINISTERS OF

FINANCE
Mr. Ioannis STOURNARAS

DEPUTY MINISTER OF
NATIONAL DEFENCE
Mrs. Foteini GENNIMATA

HEALTH
Mr. Spyridon-Adonis GEORGIADIS
LABOUR, SOCIAL SECURITY AND SOLIDARITY
Mr. Ioannis BROUTSIS

SHIPPING AND THE AEGEAN SEA
Mr. Miltiadis VARVITSIOTIS

It has been authenticated and the Big Stamp of the State has been affixed.

Athens, 28th November 2013

THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE
Mr. Charalampos ATHANASIOU

5
__________________
Alenka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 03:57   #217
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Greece
Boat: Jeanneau 43DS
Posts: 163
re: Greek Tax! - MERGED 4 THREADS

I am led to believe that because my boat is 12+m and stays in Greece all year long, albeit much of the time on the hard I shall have to pay for a whole year not just the months she is afloat.

There is a level of vagueness which no doubt will lead to different interpretations in different areas of Greece. I doubt the Ionian will wish to deter the armada of Italian summer visitors by charging a full year for a one month stay (12m+).
__________________
Alenka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 06:42   #218
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Port Welshpool Australia
Boat: sold swan new cat under construction / Canados 50s
Posts: 755
Images: 16
Send a message via Skype™ to beneteau-500
re: Greek Tax! - MERGED 4 THREADS

And after two days of pulling my hair out last week over the new property wealth tax and the new cruising tax one thing i did find out was that the port authroity fees have not been removed.

so ie after paying your cruising tax for example a 12 month fee and you check in At symi and sail to any other Island where in some cases the port authority will want to see your DEKPA or transit log and on some Islands they ask you to pay port tax this tax has NOT BEEN Removed and can still be applied.


The New cruising tax Law/Budget and all the other Greek taxes and budget Proposals for 2014/2015 has now been passed with the Greek Govt voting in parliament on Sunday 8/12/13 which means now they get also there next tranche of Bail out money

So 2014 I am cruising Italian Waters until the New system is resolved sum what and what you truly pay as I believe what you pay in one area will be different in another area of Greece and i can see tempers being frayed as they look to be insisting it be payed at a tax office and the tax office in certain areas work some stupid hrs

so for all those who remain in Greece and sail about Good Luck for all those who enter Greek waters Have fun and one Island i would not recommend checking in or going to is

888888 pm and i will tell you which one as this is one authority i would not trust
__________________
beneteau-500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 07:06   #219
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Underway in the Med -
Boat: Jeanneau 40 DS SoulMates
Posts: 1,904
Images: 1
re: Greek Tax! - MERGED 4 THREADS

i am still confused -- do i read it correctly that for a 12.19m boat - i would pay 1219euros or 121.90euros a month - but if i can only sail for 3 months (american boat) then i would only pay 365.70 euros - but that does not seem logical as a 12m boat would have to fork over 400 euros on day one

am i missing something?? think it will be italy and albania until they get this figured out
__________________
just our thoughts and opinions
chuck and svsoulmates
In Marmaris Turkey for the winter
chuckr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 07:13   #220
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Greece
Boat: Jeanneau 43DS
Posts: 163
re: Greek Tax! - MERGED 4 THREADS

This is Greece!

Very nice people, terrible bureaucracy

As I said, it is obvious that different parts of Greece will interpret aspects differently!
__________________
Alenka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 07:27   #221
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Port Welshpool Australia
Boat: sold swan new cat under construction / Canados 50s
Posts: 755
Images: 16
Send a message via Skype™ to beneteau-500
re: Greek Tax! - MERGED 4 THREADS

Chuckr No your not missing any thing Greece was once Elysium but will now be Kayos next yr will only be the 2nd time in 20yrs i have not sailed in greek waters
__________________
beneteau-500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 07:30   #222
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,915
re: Greek Tax! - MERGED 4 THREADS

Anyone heard anything about folks that are just dropping in on the way west?
__________________
robert sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 07:37   #223
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Port Welshpool Australia
Boat: sold swan new cat under construction / Canados 50s
Posts: 755
Images: 16
Send a message via Skype™ to beneteau-500
re: Greek Tax! - MERGED 4 THREADS

you enter greek waters you will have to pay its that simple and funny thing is the Greek Navy has stepped up patrols in past 2 weeks in s/e cyclades area where they got the money for the fuel is beyond me as the coast guard boats are on limited use at moment as they have no money for the fuel to run boats but that may now change as the new budget has been approved
__________________
beneteau-500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 07:55   #224
Registered User
 
athene's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Adriatic and Inland France (summer); New Forest, UK (winter)
Boat: Oyster 435 cutter-rigged ketch and Nowee 38 motor yacht
Posts: 303
re: Greek Tax! - MERGED 4 THREADS

Thanks to Alenka for posting the first decent translation of the rules for the new cruising tax. Knowing the relaxed attitude of many skippers who cruise Greece (especially the Italians who flood across in July and August), I think there are likely to be more than a few confrontations in Greek harbours, especially in the Ionian.

As I understand the text, if you're caught without having paid the tax at a port of entry, you're liable for the full 12 months tax PLUS a fine of 100 per cent. For a larger yacht only planning to stay for a couple of weeks, that could amount to €3,000 or more!

In most of the Greek harbours we've visited in recent years, the port police have seemed to be on something of a charm offensive, unlike when we first arrived in 2005. I have a feeling all that's about to end ...
__________________
Athene of Lymington and Cheyenne of Lymington
athene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 07:56   #225
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 36
re: Greek Tax! - MERGED 4 THREADS

I don't want to confuse further with this, BUT the greek tax law was making in the past, a clear distinction between boats with engine, and those with none. As a matter of fact, boats with no engine were not subject to further taxation once they were imported.
I left 4 years ago from Greece but it would be strange if they changed so much. So, does the new law take in account, whether a sailboat has an engine or not?
__________________

__________________
Tsofli is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
Greece, water, yacht

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thrane and Thrane Fishery Capsat steve.garlick Marine Electronics 10 20-07-2017 10:26
One More Question About Personal Property Tax capcook Dollars & Cents 27 25-04-2012 13:26



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:03.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.