Greek Tax! - MERGED 4 THREADS

[athene]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

oh please, the revenue from cruisers ( as opposed to the two week bridgage) is small as to be insignificant. The vast vast majority of money brought in tourism is in the form of land based travellers and package holidays. The money doesnt just go to multinational travel companies, it goes to local hotels, restaurants etc

Do you really think that greece would penalise its main stream tourist market , not likely

Lets not kid ourselves as to our monetary importance.

dave

No one - as far as I can see - is claiming that we yachties make a massive contribution to the Greek economy. That's why the Greeks make so little investment in their harbour infrastructure and why they've failed to complete so many unfinished marina sites around the country - we just don't particularly matter on a national scale.

What is true is that there are a lot of businesses - especially tavernas - in areas less frequented by land tourists (and that even includes some smaller harbours and anchorages on the bigger islands that are little visited by land) that will struggle if there is a significant reduction in yachts cruising Greece.

On that final point, of course, none of us is an expert.

[beneteau-500]

i think you all have missed my point about what the private yacht gives to the economy ie 500 yachts will not give money to the locals on a scale of 6000 charter yachts.
yachts visiting santorini or mykonos would not keep the economy going and would hardly boost the economy its the crusie ships that keep these islands going
.
look at ios the party island yachts go there because the moorings are free and they can leave there boats for one or two days and go down to santorini so what contribution are they making to the island then.

how many yachts go to astypalea ( sorry for the spelling ) hardly any and i know this for a true fact as a relation runs taverna there and she is one of only two taxis drivers on the Island and she has told me charter yachts dont call there or very rarely and if yachts do call its private yachts and very few of them call .

Kastelhorizon Island has a lot of yachts calling ( a lot of people don't know this but its called little Australia this Island ) but its only the charter yachts who spend money when a private yacht turns up the taverna owners dread it because they know these yachties are on budgets so they know they don't spend the money and they take up the space of a potential charter yacht who will spend money locally will they the greek authroities charge the two little tourist boats who do the trip across from kas to Kastelhorizon no this is one Island that will survive due to its special status/ and the greek laws that are in place which you will not find any where else .

[Chris Robb]

Originally Posted by beneteau-500

i think you all have missed my point about what the private yacht gives to the economy ie 500 yachts will not give money to the locals on a scale of 6000 charter yachts.
yachts visiting santorini or mykonos would not keep the economy going and would hardly boost the economy its the crusie ships that keep these islands going
.
look at ios the party island yachts go there because the moorings are free and they can leave there boats for one or two days and go down to santorini so what contribution are they making to the island then.

how many yachts go to astypalea ( sorry for the spelling ) hardly any and i know this for a true fact as a relation runs taverna there and she is one of only two taxis drivers on the Island and she has told me charter yachts dont call there or very rarely and if yachts do call its private yachts and very few of them call .

Kastelhorizon Island has a lot of yachts calling ( a lot of people don't know this but its called little Australia this Island ) but its only the charter yachts who spend money when a private yacht turns up the taverna owners dread it because they know these yachties are on budgets so they know they don't spend the money and they take up the space of a potential charter yacht who will spend money locally will they the greek authroities charge the two little tourist boats who do the trip across from kas to Kastelhorizon no this is one Island that will survive due to its special status/ and the greek laws that are in place which you will not find any where else .

Sorry, but I don't agree.

We were stuck in Arki for about 4 days (Meltemi). The majority of the yachts there ate every evening at the Tavernas. Next year - my eating budget will be cut, and it will be probably only twice a week. I am sure that I am not that unusual having a fixed income and being forced to balance it, something that the Greeks didn't. I'm not here to bail them out - they have to cut their overheads - not raise taxes.

[beneteau-500]

Chris would you say then 500 private yachts spend as much as 6000 charter yachts in a season ?

[Chris Robb]

Originally Posted by beneteau-500

Chris would you say then 500 private yachts spend as much as 6000 charter yachts in a season ?

On some islands the private yacht will outnumber the charterers. Those islands do not have much of a land based tourism at all. They will suffer. Leros was suffering last year without this.

[beneteau-500]

yes islands will suffer for the next ten yrs minimum but i truly don't believe private yachts provide a income to people of these islands that is sufficient enough to keep them going in the winter months let alone the summer months and a vast majority of the Islands are subsidized a lot of the small islands have been given grants to improve things or build new infrastructure and a good example of this is on Kythonos every yacht was going to Loutra because thats what it says in the guide book but they went and had main port redone and now the charter yachts flock in there and you will find a ratio of about 15 charter yachts to about 3 private yachts at most and who spends the most money the charters on food and booze

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by athene

No one - as far as I can see - is claiming that we yachties make a massive contribution to the Greek economy. That's why the Greeks make so little investment in their harbour infrastructure and why they've failed to complete so many unfinished marina sites around the country - we just don't particularly matter on a national scale.

What is true is that there are a lot of businesses - especially tavernas - in areas less frequented by land tourists (and that even includes some smaller harbours and anchorages on the bigger islands that are little visited by land) that will struggle if there is a significant reduction in yachts cruising Greece.

On that final point, of course, none of us is an expert.

The investment in marine infrastructure is more a matter of public policy and the priorities of state spending, one could use france as the diametric opposite in that large amounts of public money have been lavished on marina infrastructure. Greece wasn't and isn't a rich country and hence never invested in much public marine infrastructure. Maine infrastructure and actual economic return have rarely featured in any thinking

i see no reason why any significant reduction in short term cruising in greece will result from this tax.

Dave

[Alenka]

Tourism is a very fragile thing.

Twenty years ago Jersey was packed with holiday makers but they were taken for granted, prices soared and value came down - now that money earner is just a shadow of its former self on the island.

I can't comment on many of the islands 'Beneteau-500' talks about because my travels have not yet taken me there, but from what he says they seem to be in a different league to those I have visited in the Ionian and Aegean.

The 18,000 population of Naxos is always going to be affected differently to Kastos, which just about manages to support its one hundred inhabitants. The islands main income - Yahcts! It's like trying to group the Solent and Shetland together. It can't be done.

Will the new tax affect 'my' cruising plans for next year. Most certainly. The €1,000+ I have to pay in tax will not be spent directly with local communities. I won't be extending my cruising to entertain guests onboard and their spending will be lost completely.

Maybe I am in the minority. But let's take a vote.

So a thumbs down to the tax if you will be modifying your 2014 plans and a thumbs up if you are unaffected.

[athene]

Originally Posted by Alenka

Maybe I am in the minority. But let's take a vote.

So a thumbs down to the tax if you will be modifying your 2014 plans and a thumbs up if you are unaffected.

You're not - certainly if this thread is anything to go by. Look out Albania, Montenegro and Croatia - here we come!

[svBeBe]

Originally Posted by NornaBiron

We are 14.6m loa, anchor almost every day, including throughout the winter, are self-reliant and live on £9000 a year. We have a good life, rent a car occassionally, a bike more often, eat well on board and occassionally eat ashore. We don't feel like we are missing out on anything.

The tax for us will amount to €1500. It would be very difficult for us to prove that the boat is based in Greece for a year as we do not use marinas and do not lift annually. Therefore it is unlikely that we'd be able to get the 30% discount for paying for a year up front without causing some personal difficulties.

Thus the tax is much nearer 15% of our annual budget and is simply unaffordable for us. I'm sure we're not the only ones who are in this position.

Oh, and by the way, our way of life is far from basic. We have a much better quality of life than we had when we were part of the 'keep up with the Jones's' rat race in the UK.

Sorry for the confusion. You had stated that 480 euros for 90 days (the maximum tax we would have to pay since we cannot stay in Greece longer than 90 days because we are not EU) was more than 10% of your cruising budget. Comparing a full year tax to 90 days tax is comparing apples to oranges.

Judy

[NornaBiron]

Originally Posted by svBeBe

Sorry for the confusion. You had stated that 480 euros for 90 days (the maximum tax we would have to pay since we cannot stay in Greece longer than 90 days because we are not EU) was more than 10% of your cruising budget. Comparing a full year tax to 90 days tax is comparing apples to oranges.

Judy

No confusion Judy. I was comparing the cost of the tax that WE have to (?) pay to OUR budget. Whether you look at it monthly or annually it is still close to 15% of our monthly or annual budget, and therefore unaffordable.

[Jacques2]

The last version of the law (in english) has been published by the C.A., here :
New Greek Cruising Tax | CA

[chuckr]

WOW -- so if i read this correctly -- we are an american boat and only have 90 days in the EU and we are a 40' boat or 12.192 meters -- so i would pay 1,219.20 euros for a max of 90 days or 13.55 euro a day --

that is incredible -- i think greece will be skipped -- we simply can not afford it

[Chris Robb]

Originally Posted by chuckr

WOW -- so if i read this correctly -- we are an american boat and only have 90 days in the EU and we are a 40' boat or 12.192 meters -- so i would pay 1,219.20 euros for a max of 90 days or 13.55 euro a day --

that is incredible -- i think greece will be skipped -- we simply can not afford it

You dont read it correctly. There is also a provision to pay a year in advance with 30% discount or pay monthly at around €120 euros per month. What is unclear is what you will pay as a "foreign" cruising permit (welcome back from the colonies)- will it be in addition or will this replace it? If additional, I would not be surprised if you gave Greece a miss - which is a real shame.

[Alenka]

Originally Posted by chuckr

WOW -- so if i read this correctly -- we are an american boat and only have 90 days in the EU and we are a 40' boat or 12.192 meters -- so i would pay 1,219.20 euros for a max of 90 days or 13.55 euro a day --

that is incredible -- i think greece will be skipped -- we simply can not afford it

I think you are also reading this incorrectly (I hope!).

I believe you will only pay around €120 per month for the time you are 'afloat' in Greek Waters. So if you stay 3 months that would be €360. What no one as asked is this per calendar month or every 28 days?

Makes a big difference. I had planned on relaunching my boat last week in May - but not if I have to pay €135 for just a couple of days. If visitors arrive mid month and leave the following mid month do they pay for 4 weeks or two months???