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Old 19-11-2013, 22:34   #31
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

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Which marina/yard did you haul at so i can try em next year? we didnt get a quote under 4400 euro for our 42 footer in turkey so that seems like a relatively good deal for turkey these days (though still just shy of double what we ended up paying in greece!)

thanks
Yachtmarin, we paid yesterday and go up today, remembering we are 23 feet wide also something else that needs to be remembered about slipping in Turkey it re-sets the clock on the boat. The 18month time period for our vessel in Europe will restart once we leave these waters.

It would be silly to have it ticking away for 4months storage time in Greece, i think 6 months is minimum bond time by customs in Greece to stop the clock? Might be wrong???

Our experience of slipping in Corfu was not good, the mechanical (VOLVO) repairs were very good however it took them two more re-slippings at their cost to get it right.

Turkish and Greek people are fantastic HOWEVER the abilities and time priorities of the Turk's are much better.

Alcohol well of course it would be dearer in a Moslem country…. der!!!!!!!
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Old 19-11-2013, 23:07   #32
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

Well thats pretty interesting - Yachtmarin quoted my smaller cat (and even a lagoon 380 come to think of it) for more than yours so I guess they didnt fill up and dropped their prices towards end of season or something

Re the VAT clock no one mentioned any minimum period but since im there for 6 months it didnt come up I guess.
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Old 19-11-2013, 23:20   #33
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

We priced about 2months ago so not sure if they'd seen a low vacancy or not BUT i think the owner is sticking it into his competition a bit, very political!!!

Unless your boats in custom bond the clock keeps ticking in Euro countries here in Turkey it stopped as they are not part of the pact. You may need a week in Turkey when you get back to re-start the clock maybe? 18 Months and tax must be paid i believe?
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Old 20-11-2013, 01:09   #34
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

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Well thats pretty interesting - Yachtmarin quoted my smaller cat (and even a lagoon 380 come to think of it) for more than yours so I guess they didnt fill up and dropped their prices towards end of season or something

Re the VAT clock no one mentioned any minimum period but since im there for 6 months it didnt come up I guess.
Quoting and getting are 2 different things. I know of 4 yachts who were turned away from Yat Marin this winter because they are full.

As for the possible (probable) new circulation tax in Greece, it is no big deal. It will cost more for us to cruise Montenegro or Croatia than the new tax in Greece for our boat for 90 days -- actually for 89 days because the Greek authorities advised us in 2011 that if we were still in Greece on the 90th day of our 90-day visas then we would be fined.

Judy
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Old 20-11-2013, 16:18   #35
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

Unlike most of the marinas in Turkey, Yatmarin doesn't have any price list, they may quote different prices to the same boat in different occasions. Generally speaking they are cheaper than Netsel in the city center..
I don't know which criteria are used to determine the prices that are quoted but I'd suspected that their occupancy rate is the major or the only factor..
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Old 20-11-2013, 16:38   #36
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

I don't think anyone should worry about the Vat clock , its simply not an issue once you abide by the very simple rules, that is get outside the customs union of the EU for a day and then return. Note the use of the term Customs Union, thats not the EU.

Bonding is complex and is solely reliant on local tax law, theres no EU law on bonding and such national laws existed before the EU wide TIR ( temporary import relief) directive was introduced.

So a bond in one country does not stop the VAT clock in another country. it merely stops it in relation to the country where the bond is.

dave
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Old 20-11-2013, 17:16   #37
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I don't think anyone should worry about the Vat clock , its simply not an issue once you abide by the very simple rules, that is get outside the customs union of the EU for a day and then return. Note the use of the term Customs Union, thats not the EU.

Bonding is complex and is solely reliant on local tax law, theres no EU law on bonding and such national laws existed before the EU wide TIR ( temporary import relief) directive was introduced.

So a bond in one country does not stop the VAT clock in another country. it merely stops it in relation to the country where the bond is.

dave
Always wondered what TIR was thanks for that info ...
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Old 20-11-2013, 17:20   #38
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

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Always wondered what TIR was thanks for that info ...
confusingly thats not what the TIR plate you see on trucks and containers , that stands for "Transports Internationaux Routiers" , and relates to Carnets

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Old 20-11-2013, 17:24   #39
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I don't think anyone should worry about the Vat clock , its simply not an issue once you abide by the very simple rules, that is get outside the customs union of the EU for a day and then return. Note the use of the term Customs Union, thats not the EU.

Bonding is complex and is solely reliant on local tax law, theres no EU law on bonding and such national laws existed before the EU wide TIR ( temporary import relief) directive was introduced.

So a bond in one country does not stop the VAT clock in another country. it merely stops it in relation to the country where the bond is.

dave
Great so now im worrying Dave! I assumed that if my boat was bonded in Greece then that time would apply EU wide. Good thing my plan is to go to turkey not italy then.

By customs bonded in greece I take that to mean Preveza customs hold my original transit log and the boat cant be put back in water until they have returned that to me and have authorised the release of the boat. That sound right or was there something more i had to do?

thanks
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Old 20-11-2013, 17:27   #40
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

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Great so now im worrying Dave! I assumed that if my boat was bonded in Greece then that time would apply EU wide. Good thing my plan is to go to turkey not italy then.

By customs bonded in greece I take that to mean Preveza customs hold my original transit log and the boat cant be put back in water until they have returned that to me and have authorised the release of the boat. That sound right or was there something more i had to do?

thanks
why are you doing this. TIR provisions were enacted to specifically avoid this type of hassle. As you describe it , it may or may not be a bond in the true sense of the word. I mean are you getting customs stamped documentation stating its in bond.

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Old 20-11-2013, 17:33   #41
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

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Originally Posted by yeloya View Post
Unlike most of the marinas in Turkey, Yatmarin doesn't have any price list, they may quote different prices to the same boat in different occasions. Generally speaking they are cheaper than Netsel in the city center..
I don't know which criteria are used to determine the prices that are quoted but I'd suspected that their occupancy rate is the major or the only factor..
Cheers
Yeloya
thanks for the explanation. You would think they would show their best price to the boats enquiring from a ways off to try and ensure they actually come? turns out we probably enquired 1 month before lagoonforus and us along with 3 other boats i know of stayed in greece as a result of the turkey quotes we got. Frank 1 month later gets a different (around 1000 euro lower) quote. Like you say depends on how the occupancy is fairing each week i guess. Good to know for next year....
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Old 20-11-2013, 17:38   #42
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
why are you doing this. TIR provisions were enacted to specifically avoid this type of hassle. As you describe it , it may or may not be a bond in the true sense of the word. I mean are you getting customs stamped documentation stating its in bond.

dave
To haul out on a transit log it has to be surrendered to local customs as a non eu boat. thats what the yard told me anyway. The boat now cant be moved without customs authorisation which when given also releases the transit log back to the skipper.

I took this to be customs bonded but the only doc i have is a copy of transit log with a customs stamp on it.
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Old 20-11-2013, 17:39   #43
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

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To haul out on a transit log it has to be surrendered to local customs as a non eu boat. thats what the yard told me anyway. The boat now cant be moved without customs authorisation which when given also releases the transit log back to the skipper.

I took this to be customs bonded but the only doc i have is a copy of transit log with a customs stamp on it.

Isn't that just a local greek thing to stop the greek transit log clock running out ?
Doesnt sound like a bond to me .
dave
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Old 20-11-2013, 17:46   #44
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

oh well im going to turkey inside 18 months anyway but damn im sick of all the conflicting regs and tape in foreign languages with poor and differing explanations from each official. So if your right im ok for tranit log but not VAT since I didnt jump through the right hoop in this particular country this time around.

Hope my plans dont have to change i guess.
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Old 20-11-2013, 18:05   #45
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

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oh well im going to turkey inside 18 months anyway but damn im sick of all the conflicting regs and tape in foreign languages with poor and differing explanations from each official. So if your right im ok for tranit log but not VAT since I didnt jump through the right hoop in this particular country this time around.

Hope my plans dont have to change i guess.
I think much confusion arises from how " foreigners" view the EU , its more like the US federal and State system. There are EU "regulations" these have EU wide legal status from the moment of en-action. Then there are EU Directives, which make a certain thing legal or illegal , but leave individual states the ability to implement the mechanisms in local law and then pure local law, where the processes are purely confined to the local state in question , but such laws much not contravene EU law, which has supremacy .

This generates much confusion , as VAT law is a combination of EU regulation and Directive.
dave
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