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Old 19-11-2013, 04:46   #16
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Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
David all cruisers spend similar on repairs etc etc Greece is shooting its self in the foot by fining people who want to visit. Turkey is a way better option and cheaper by far with much better service Whoopty doo and all.
Did you find that genuinely the case frank. I had friends back from turkey recently who were shocked at how expensive Turkey has become and stated that in the recent recession , that Greece was cheaper. This wasn't boat related stuff , just general holiday stuff ( eating out , accommodation , public transport , car hire etc )

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Old 19-11-2013, 06:17   #17
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

Yer Turkey may have changed however as a cruiser you can get anything repaired they are true 'repair geniuses'.

Slipping our boat here is cheap 3,200 Euros gets you straddle lifted out, water blasted, placed/chocked with 4months hardstand in a very secure Marina.

Most in Greece crane lift you out with dodgy slings, no spreaders, Corfu was a truck crane!!!!!

Viv and i had a 2 course seafood meal, (appetisers and fantastic thin bread, fruit desert thrown in) last night with a good bottle of white for $80:00 AUD. In Australia that meal would cost us equivalent of $140:00.

Marmaris teems with fantastic trades people canvas, machining, incredible SS work etc etc.

BUT 'tis probably dearer than say 5 years ago as always however i've yet to find anywhere that gets cheaper...
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Old 19-11-2013, 06:18   #18
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
You staying in Turkey sounds like it would be best for all concerned .
A strange comment David?
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Old 19-11-2013, 06:27   #19
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

I think the basics are still a bit cheaper in Turkey but that also varies with location. As far as quality of workmanship its Turkey 5 Greece 1 there is really no competition as Turkey is just better and in most cases as cheap or cheaper.
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Old 19-11-2013, 06:32   #20
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

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I think the basics are still a bit cheaper in Turkey but that also varies with location. As far as quality of workmanship its Turkey 5 Greece 1 there is really no competition as Turkey is just better and in most cases as cheap or cheaper.
Your opinion would agree with all cruisers i've met here in Turkey over the last 2 months.

Turkey's people are extremely generous always wanting to share food or tea and would be the most respectful we've yet to meet.

Cheers
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Old 19-11-2013, 06:33   #21
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Your opinion would agree with all cruisers i've met here in Turkey over the last 2 months.

Turkey's people are extremely generous always wanting to share food or tea and would be the most respectful we've yet to meet.

Cheers
I agree Re workmanship , turkey is generally better at that

Dave
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Old 19-11-2013, 15:12   #22
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

First of all, let's bear in mind this law is very unlikely to pass through the parliament and even if so, it won't be applicable. (there are some examples of this)
Yes, the tax has to be collected from boaters but it should be reasonable and we should get some extra service in turn. Do you think with this tax something will improve in Greece for boaters?
The marinas are expensive in Turkey because the service is probably the best in the Med + they haven't been built with the funds of tax payers in Europe or by the government. They are all private and the investor who takes the risk has to get some return on his investment. After all, you may choose to not to go to the marina. Unlike Croatia, you can anchor anywhere in Turkey for free.

In my view, the restaurants in Turkey are more expensive than Greece. This may partly be explained with the incredible taxes on alcholic beverages but again, I believe they are way more expensive even more than Italy and Spain..

Cheers,

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Old 19-11-2013, 16:05   #23
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
Yer Turkey may have changed however as a cruiser you can get anything repaired they are true 'repair geniuses'.

Slipping our boat here is cheap 3,200 Euros gets you straddle lifted out, water blasted, placed/chocked with 4months hardstand in a very secure Marina.

Most in Greece crane lift you out with dodgy slings, no spreaders, Corfu was a truck crane!!!!!

Viv and i had a 2 course seafood meal, (appetisers and fantastic thin bread, fruit desert thrown in) last night with a good bottle of white for $80:00 AUD. In Australia that meal would cost us equivalent of $140:00.

Marmaris teems with fantastic trades people canvas, machining, incredible SS work etc etc.

BUT 'tis probably dearer than say 5 years ago as always however i've yet to find anywhere that gets cheaper...
Which marina/yard did you haul at so i can try em next year? we didnt get a quote under 4400 euro for our 42 footer in turkey so that seems like a relatively good deal for turkey these days (though still just shy of double what we ended up paying in greece!)

thanks
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Old 19-11-2013, 16:54   #24
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

Greece is such a young nation, ignoring the changes in management it is only what, two or three thousand years so they've not had a reasonable chance to learn how to run a country yet.

Or perhaps, they have, and one should accept it for what it is, the country running the way the Greeks want to run it, or leave it alone. I'm hearing what Kipling called "White Man's Burden" from folks who think they can do a better job of running Greece than what the Greeks are doing on their own?

"As in Turkey a hell of a lot are registered in DELAWARE by a corporation, searches then reveal nothing about ownership."
US states solved that one a long time ago. The corporation is a business, the boat is a business asset or locus. The boat stays in my waters for too long, and I'm going to require that corporation to REGISTER LOCALLY and PAY TAXES locally and IDENTIFY Itself locally, because now that foreign corporation is doing business in another venue, and that requires being licensed there. Yes, the Greeks or Turks or anyone else could easily do that, or many other things. Odds are that the owners of those boats also pull the political strings that make the puppets say "Oh my, there's nothing we can do!"

So you visit, you accept it, or you leave. Invasion and conquest, hasn't worked out so well in Greece.
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Old 19-11-2013, 19:26   #25
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

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Greece is such a young nation, ignoring the changes in management it is only what, two or three thousand years so they've not had a reasonable chance to learn how to run a country yet.

Or perhaps, they have, and one should accept it for what it is, the country running the way the Greeks want to run it, or leave it alone. I'm hearing what Kipling called "White Man's Burden" from folks who think they can do a better job of running Greece than what the Greeks are doing on their own?

"As in Turkey a hell of a lot are registered in DELAWARE by a corporation, searches then reveal nothing about ownership."
US states solved that one a long time ago. The corporation is a business, the boat is a business asset or locus. The boat stays in my waters for too long, and I'm going to require that corporation to REGISTER LOCALLY and PAY TAXES locally and IDENTIFY Itself locally, because now that foreign corporation is doing business in another venue, and that requires being licensed there. Yes, the Greeks or Turks or anyone else could easily do that, or many other things. Odds are that the owners of those boats also pull the political strings that make the puppets say "Oh my, there's nothing we can do!"

So you visit, you accept it, or you leave. Invasion and conquest, hasn't worked out so well in Greece.
Have you been to Greece lately mate? There were no Greeks I met there that think their country is running the way they want it to. None.
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Old 19-11-2013, 19:55   #26
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

No, I haven't been there lately.

But if you don't think the Greeks are running it, who do you think has usurped the nation?
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Old 19-11-2013, 20:10   #27
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

As a non-EU boat I have to pay a cruising tax now. From Noonsite:

Non-EU Boats
Transit Log: Issued for 6 months and can be extended for up to 18 months: 80 Euros.
Cruising Tax Charge (replacing the Cruising Permit): 15 euro per metre, charged for each period of 3 months spent in Greek waters (about €200 for a 12m yacht). Payable at the end of each 90 day period and not payable if departing before 90 days. Missing this payment risks a fine. If your yacht is on the hard, this tax is still payable, so be sure to make arrangements for payment during your absence.

This adds up to 1080 euros per year for Palarran right now. If this law passes in the future I'll pay 100 euros per meter x 18 = 1800 then get a 30% discount for being permanent which equals 1260 euros. So this change would cost me an additional 180 euros.

Frank, I spent quite a bit of cheese in Greece also and quite honestly, an extra 180 euros per year won't change my plans. Since Yeloya commented he can attest to the very high cost of haul outs in Turkey. I pay around 4500 euros for 10 months on the hard, haul out, and launch - complete. The marina does use a crane, but it's a 160 ton monster with an 8 meter spreader bar and new slings. It's twice the price in Turkey - period - anywhere. Also, most of my quay moorings have been free in Greece, not so anywhere else in the Med.

I really like the Greeks, the scenery is awesome, food reasonable in price but not outstanding in taste, so again, for an extra 180 euros - great.

It's very cheap compared to Croatia.
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Old 19-11-2013, 20:37   #28
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

Maybe I should feel angry having to pay $2400 a year in taxes for having my boat in California.
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Old 19-11-2013, 20:51   #29
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

Lift outs in Turkey are generally more money but if your being pulled in a modern marina in Greece like Lefkas then the prices are very close. If your just wintering and spend the rest of the year in anchorages or are passing thru like us then the marinas in Turkey are as cheap or cheaper in some locations and considerable more in other locations. Winter rates (6 months) can be as cheap as 1200 Euro in some Turkey locations for a 42 foot boat.
If you are comparing food costs (my wife tracks this) then in general they are cheaper in Turkey and the quality is exceptional. If you throw alcohol into the mix it is cheaper in Greece.
If your getting basic maintenance work done its about equal in both countries BUT if you are having specialty work done, paint jobs, stainless steel fabrication,canvas work etc. etc. then you would be wise to have that type of work done in Turkey.
We found the Greeks and Turks to be wonderful people and its hard to pick a winner in that department as it depends on your personal experiences.
We are pushing on next year and we both will really miss the people,places and especially the food.
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Old 19-11-2013, 21:38   #30
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Re: Greek Government To Introduce A Fine To Cruise Greece?

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No, I haven't been there lately.

But if you don't think the Greeks are running it, who do you think has usurped the nation?
LOL Nice to see you dont let a lack of local knowledge get in the way of your opinion then. Didnt say the greeks werent running the show though plenty would argue the Bundesbank is probably calling the shots for now.
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