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Old 08-07-2015, 10:21   #76
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Re: Greece votes "NO" - impact on cruisers

The greedy selfishness has to be delt with that is the Greek way of doing things..Greece leaving the Euro will be the new version of Yugoslavia after the 2nd World War and runs the risk of becoming a pain in the neck for Russia,China itself, and the "New Silk Road" ..It must suck getting what you ask for all the time,its not healthy!
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Old 08-07-2015, 11:12   #77
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Re: Greece votes "NO" - impact on cruisers

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The greedy selfishness has to be delt with that is the Greek way of doing things..Greece leaving the Euro will be the new version of Yugoslavia after the 2nd World War and runs the risk of becoming a pain in the neck for Russia,China itself, and the "New Silk Road" ..It must suck getting what you ask for all the time,its not healthy!
This is such a compex situation. One thing that makes us stay here is not just the beautiful islands, but the wonderful people. Kind, generous, welcoming and very family oriented.

I remember Symi last winter and the extraordinary generosity of the Greeks, already struggling under financial stress for several years. The gifts from the bus driver when his daughter was born (I was the only one on the bus at the time and he phoned home and sent one of his kids out to meet the bus along the way with two big pink wrapped parcels of sweets and nuts etc to give me). The hunter who gave me a lift and took me home and his mother plied me with coffee and cake and lemon rice pudding made from their goats' milk. And the grocer who gave me wine not just at Christmas, but on leaving. Also the liquor store lady who took in all my deliveries (I must have had about 30 from all over the globe this year) and stored them for me and rang me whenever something had arrived. And the biscuits and sweets I was continually plied with. Then there is the huge jar of homemade olives I was given when I praised them in a salad I was having in a taverna. We were invited to join in religious celebrations where we were fed and poured raki and limoncello.

You would see none of this Australia or really anywhere else in the world I can think of. It is this generosity that has partly resulted in Greeks being in this mess.

"Greedy selfishness" is such an unjustified remark.

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Old 08-07-2015, 11:25   #78
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Re: Greece votes "NO" - impact on cruisers

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This is such a compex situation. One thing that makes us stay here is not just the beautiful islands, but the wonderful people. Kind, generous, welcoming and very family oriented.

I remember Symi last winter and the extraordinary generosity of the Greeks, already struggling under financial stress for several years. The gifts from the bus driver when his daughter was born (I was the only one on the bus at the time and he phoned home and sent one of his kids out to meet the bus along the way with two big pink wrapped parcels of sweets and nuts etc to give me). The hunter who gave me a lift and took me home and his mother plied me with coffee and cake and lemon rice pudding made from their goats' milk. And the grocer who gave me wine not just at Christmas, but on leaving. Also the liquor store lady who took in all my deliveries (I must have had about 30 from all over the globe this year) and stored them for me and rang me whenever something had arrived. And the biscuits and sweets I was continually plied with. Then there is the huge jar of homemade olives I was given when I praised them in a salad I was having in a taverna. We were invited to join in religious celebrations where we were fed and poured raki and limoncello.

You would see none of this Australia or really anywhere else in the world I can think of. It is this generosity that has partly resulted in Greeks being in this mess.

"Greedy selfishness" is such an unjustified remark.

SWL
Retirement at 35 years old!! Pension plans that a 12 year old knew could not be sustained ! I guess they are running to help someone when and after the S#@T hits the fan,most try a different tack when they realize the statis-quo aint cuttin it anymore..Sounds mean and tough but they have been warned since the end (and the beginning) of the last big war..What about that crazy place down in south america massing its army on its borders,they to need to call a spade a spade too or maybe its a hoe!
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Old 08-07-2015, 12:09   #79
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Re: Greece votes "NO" - impact on cruisers

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So far no one has suggested a theory that supports a different outcome if more people turned out. The final percentages might change a bit but the vote was overwhelming enough that the result wasn't going to change.
It's quite easy to understand what happened....

The people who voted the government in and those who are generally anti-austerity have the passion and belief that they are motivated to make the effort to vote.

The people who don't support the radical left (i.e. have half a brain) realised that yes or no Greece is f..ked either way. They also did not trust the government to keep it's promises and probably thought that calling the referendum was a pathetic cop-out to avoid admitted hey failed to deliver on their promises. Whilst people might tell pollsters "yes", apathy prevented them form bothering to vote.

I spoke to two chandeliers before the vote, both bringing up the topic. One said he was going to vote No and the other disagreed with what was happening in the government in a way that suggest he would vote Yes, but said he will not bother voting.
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Old 08-07-2015, 12:16   #80
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Re: Greece votes "NO" - impact on cruisers

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Sometimes I think we need to compare Greece to Haiti or Somalia in order to appreciate that it isn't really in "Shambles". I doubt anyone has gone without their cafe freido yet. Here, again, you would never know there was a problem. Scaremongering from the media for sure.
Or... Just read up on the Spanish Civil War, and find out how that came about. Similar situation, same political parties and people choosing sides.
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Old 08-07-2015, 12:21   #81
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Re: Greece votes "NO" - impact on cruisers

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Or... Just read up on the Spanish Civil War, and find out how that came about. Similar situation, same political parties and people choosing sides.
Spot on analogy...Admit it or not ,the sky seems to be falling for a lot of countries as we type...
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Old 08-07-2015, 15:15   #82
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Re: Greece votes "NO" - impact on cruisers

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I spoke to two chandeliers before the vote
Last time I spoke to a chandelier I was drunk and flat on my back, looking straight up at it. When I awoke the next morning I discovered I was now married!
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Old 08-07-2015, 16:20   #83
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Re: Greece votes "NO" - impact on cruisers

Funny how people living in a country the gov't of which owes 17 TRILLION dollars are harping on people whose gov't only owes a few hundred of billions. Talking about the kettle calling the pot black.

Apparently the Greek gov't's only fault in this situation is the lack of ability to print new $$ to cover it's debts. The way US gov't has been operating for the past 40-50 years.
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Old 08-07-2015, 16:57   #84
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Re: Greece votes "NO" - impact on cruisers

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Funny how people living in a country the gov't of which owes 17 TRILLION dollars are harping on people whose gov't only owes a few hundred of billions. Talking about the kettle calling the pot black.

Apparently the Greek gov't's only fault in this situation is the lack of ability to print new $$ to cover it's debts. The way US gov't has been operating for the past 40-50 years.
We have only been acting this way since Regan became president and I can assure you that it was planned many years before then just as all of what we are experiancing now has been planned for many years (decades, dare I say the last century)before any of us here on this big blue marble were walking about..Of course some will continue to belive that it all is left to chance and there is no control or future planning concerning the future,**** happens and we have all been lucky or unlucky depending where we live ..If Greece had its own way, I am sure from my experiance dealing with the few Greek business men I have known, that they would have indeed printed more Drakmas or Euros if given the opportunity and the situation would be much ,much worse than it is now..Out with the old and in with the new and be prepared to experiance some pain along the way,the longer one holds on to the old ways the more pain that will be felt before the new way sinks in..Greece should have started working on the new way and abandoned the old way much sooner and there would be no need for calling anyone a black pot or a kettle imo...
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Old 08-07-2015, 17:12   #85
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Re: Greece votes "NO" - impact on cruisers

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Funny how people living in a country the gov't of which owes 17 TRILLION dollars are harping on people whose gov't only owes a few hundred of billions. Talking about the kettle calling the pot black.

Apparently the Greek gov't's only fault in this situation is the lack of ability to print new $$ to cover it's debts. The way US gov't has been operating for the past 40-50 years.
Slight difference. The majority of US debt is owed to its own citizens. Greek debt is almost entirely owed to foreigners.

But you are right about printing dollars. Up to maybe 20 years ago the feds used to tell us every day, in the Wall Street Journal among others, how much money was in circulation. Now its a state secret. Some economists have tried to extrapolate the numbers from other data and believe its scary big.

I'm sure Merkel would love to get rid of Greece and I for one applaud her. The Greeks need to go back on their own currency and straighten themselves out. They're like a 40 year old son who is still living with mom and dad, and not working.
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Old 08-07-2015, 17:15   #86
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Re: Greece votes "NO" - impact on cruisers

I disagree with preposition that countries or societies must be steamrolled into modernity. This is so 19th century way of thinking. Let the Greeks be Greeks, Vietnamese Vietnamese and Mongolians Mongolians. Not everyone is cutout or wants to be as industrious as the northern Europeans/Protestants, Japanese, Chinese, etc. Some societies are just too laid back and should be left alone to be who they are. But as a corollary - of course no lending should be done or at least the lenders to such societies/countries must be made to understand that they may not be paid back and manage their risks accordingly.

I have very little sympathy if any for the world bankers who ram those predatory loans down the countries' throats as a condition for "joining the club". It's no different than if all of a sudden bankers and manufacturers push for a law which would prevent cash buying for any item sold and would require all purchases to be on credit, since anything purchased on credit in the long run is much more expensive than if bought solely with cash (the cost of college education now and 50 years ago comes to mind). That's what the Eurozone is all about as far as I can see.
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Old 08-07-2015, 17:21   #87
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Re: Greece votes "NO" - impact on cruisers

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Slight difference. The majority of US debt is owed to its own citizens. Greek debt is almost entirely owed to foreigners.

But you are right about printing dollars. Up to maybe 20 years ago the feds used to tell us every day, in the Wall Street Journal among others, how much money was in circulation. Now its a state secret. Some economists have tried to extrapolate the numbers from other data and believe its scary big.

I'm sure Merkel would love to get rid of Greece and I for one applaud her. The Greeks need to go back on their own currency and straighten themselves out. They're like a 40 year old son who is still living with mom and dad, and not working.
Hah, that everyone's favorite differentiation. But in reality there is no difference who the debtor is borrowing from. He's still a debtor. More like a drunk sailor with a money printing press, in the case of US, which IMO is even worse than "the Greeks bearing bonds" so to speak.

Agree with the gist of your last paragraph except in the case of Greece they are not the "40 year old son" but "80 year old parent" who is now made to work for his dinner. Greek civilization has been around far longer than Northern European one. And their 2,000+ year old longevity makes me wonder which civilization's approach to life is the correct one.
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Old 08-07-2015, 17:22   #88
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Re: Greece votes "NO" - impact on cruisers

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................. imo...
Isnt that the reality? You have an opinion.

What you dont have is the real reason for anything to base it on apart from news reports and government directives. Both of which are highly suspect as history proves time and time again.

Surely the best course of action is to take a deep breath, sit back and relax and let the people who might know the real reasons work it out for themselves.

Whatever happens will be at the whims and wishes of the people powerful enough to implement their own agenda, and we will be informed in due course what it was, or perhaps never.

All the muck slinging at a nation is getting wearisome. In my experience, a nation comprises of lots of nice people wanting an ordinary life and a select few who manage to screw that up for them in their pursuit of money and power and self interest.

If you wish to be a success in the world, promise everything, deliver nothing.

Napoleon Bonaparte.
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Old 08-07-2015, 17:22   #89
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Re: Greece votes "NO" - impact on cruisers

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I disagree with preposition that countries or societies must be steamrolled into modernity. This is so 19th century way of thinking. Let the Greeks be Greeks, Vietnamese Vietnamese and Mongolians Mongolians. Not everyone is cutout or wants to be as industrious as the northern Europeans/Protestants, Japanese, Chinese, etc. Some societies are just too laid back and should be left alone to be who they are. But as a corollary - of course no lending should be done or at least the lenders to such societies/countries must be made to understand that they may not be paid back and manage their risks accordingly.

I have very little sympathy if any for the world bankers who ram those predatory loans down the countries' throats as a condition for "joining the club". It's no different than if all of a sudden bankers and manufacturers push for a law which would prevent cash buying for any item sold and would require all purchases to be on credit, since anything purchased on credit in the long run is much more expensive than if bought solely with cash (the cost of college education now and 50 years ago comes to mind). That's what the Eurozone is all about as far as I can see.
The irony of your statment regarding higher education! I belive president Obama pitched his two free years of community college for "responsible" citizens today...
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Old 08-07-2015, 17:34   #90
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Re: Greece votes "NO" - impact on cruisers

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Isnt that the reality? You have an opinion.

What you dont have is the real reason for anything to base it on apart from news reports and government directives. Both of which are highly suspect as history proves time and time again.

Surely the best course of action is to take a deep breath, sit back and relax and let the people who might know the real reasons work it out for themselves.

Whatever happens will be at the whims and wishes of the people powerful enough to implement their own agenda, and we will be informed in due course what it was, or perhaps never.

All the muck slinging at a nation is getting wearisome. In my experience, a nation comprises of lots of nice people wanting an ordinary life and a select few who manage to screw that up for them in their pursuit of money and power and self interest.

If you wish to be a success in the world, promise everything, deliver nothing.

Napoleon Bonaparte.
I guess I just get lucky then..Maybe I should become a gambler, lord knows if I am as good at that as i have been at informing myself about what is going on in the world for the past 35 years id be rich..You seem to be more worried about "muck slinging" than the Greeks etc. are about their next generations lives..If it makes you feel good act like I never said anything,to bad reality bites..
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