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Old 16-11-2011, 03:13   #1
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Greece: My Résumé

see attachment !

My Resume about Greece after 3 years sailing in that area.
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File Type: pdf Greece goodby2.pdf (85.4 KB, 233 views)
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Old 16-11-2011, 04:05   #2
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Re: Greece: my resume

Why not make your post , so we do not have to down load a document?
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Old 16-11-2011, 06:11   #3
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Re: Greece: my resume

You didn't like it then!

Seriously - sorry to hear it was so bad for you. I've not sailed there yet so will find out in the next two or three years.

In the meantime, we have enormously enjoyed Italy, but it is not cheap. Marinas are very dear in the season, and coastal anchorages are few and far between. (The islands of Tuscany, Sicily and Sardinia are full of good spots.) Bread (of any quality) is v dear too, so we bake our own in Italy (though not in France!)

We've only paid for water once in Italy (Olbia) and roadside pizza booths are really cheap if you do want to eat ashore. And often very friendly to us (tho we're both white so can't be sure how they will be to your wife).
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Old 16-11-2011, 06:17   #4
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Re: Greece: my resume

Joe, Greeks are a little miffed with North Europeans right now, especially Germanic Countries who they blame for their Eurozone troubles. I've always found them to be a hospitable and welcoming populace, I'm sorry you had these problems. With the blessing things will improve once they escape from the Eurozone.
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Old 16-11-2011, 06:26   #5
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Re: Greece: my resume

It is a shame that a country that needs tourist income actually does so little for those who tour on yachts. The country and the islands especially are truly picturesque, but we too found the amount of rubbish thrown into the oceans by the locals disgusts us, and having been ripped off both by taxi drivers and restauranteurs, we too would certainly place it way down a 'must revisit' list.

But we never found it difficult to find a low or no cost berth or anchorage.

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Old 16-11-2011, 07:53   #6
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Re: Greece: My Resume

I have copied some of what you have wrote and answer to some of your statements IMHO
you wrote;
no fisherman has let me hold alongside to
his boat or give me a little place, some
of them got very aggressive


I go alongside many fisherman's boats and like anywhere and in any country some are fine with it others are not- it could be the way you ask them? No one wants other boats alongside but most of us allow it-in Europe ---
you wrote;
• The so called cost free anchor places
are nice in theory, however most of
them are unprotected at least from one
wind direction, I have only found
almost protected anchor places in
Vathi, Nidri, Porto Heli and with someIn a county,

Perhaps You have not spent enough time to say this- many many places have great protected bays and ports- of coarse many do not- just like many other countrie-----

you wrote;
• where pedestrian crossings are
principally ignored,
• stop traffic signs principally
ignored,
• traffic lights sometimes ignored,
• cars and motorbikes are parked
on pavements that one has to
step aside on the street,
• cars are parked in second lane
with now care about the
following holdups,
• a country wide no smoking law
in restaurants, cafes etc. is never
followed,
• in the harbors and at the most
anchor places the Cafes deploy
untrasound music to the area
until 6am the next morning,


humm i find this to be true so many countries including America, in many places, but more often than not its where you chose to cruise- I prefer the little village ports where it's quite, not the bigger city places weather in Greece or any other country

-you wrote;
• police or any authority not
visible (only the coat guard is
visible, goes on your nerves and
is of no help at all if in some
need),


just about every port I've been in have the port police right on the water front and like most country's the police are seldom there when they are needed, you have to call them on the phone to get them there-on the upside I have never needed them and I have never seen nor know of anyone that has needed them in more than 5 years-

you wrote;
• the picnic remnants of the
parties at the mole are just
thrown into the ocean, inclusive
plastic bottles, beer bottles,
glass bottles and all the paper,


I've personally never seen this happen, I have seen carless people leave trash in places where the wind has picked it up and blown it in the water-I personally pick up trash as I'm walking if I see something blowing across my path- you would be surprised at the good will this creates with the locals-- I see trash near any city on the Med-Europe- garbage floating in the water so what's different here?
you wrote;

• Anglers next to the boat bellow
all the night through and when
one is complaining only react
with laughter and the next
morning you can find all the fish
bowels thrown all over your
boat,

I've never had this happen to me- ever- anywhere! I would say it depends on how you ask them, if you ask them in a nice way most people are friendly ,if you're not so nice -I can understand them throwing fish guts at your boat, this will happen everywhere you go- -I have had a few angers fishing at night near me once in a while, but mostly not making much noise because they we're trying to catch fish---

you wrote;
it shows that the people have totally no
respect for other people or the environment
and in such a country we cannot live in the
long run.


Sad but true , but this holds true for people in every country in the world, there are far more people that are self centerd and care only about them self's -than there are people who care about and respect others and the environment - so to me it seems like Greece is not much different in Many ways as many other places except that its Uniquely Greek - people are people where every you go !
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Old 20-11-2011, 13:46   #7
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Re: Greece: My Resume

Hi !
Thanks to Ram for its (long and detailed) answer. I suppose Joefloki is "not made for" Greece. I mean like "some boots (or boats) that are not made for walking (or sailing in these area ).
Yes : "people are people where every you go !" as you say Ram... Even on sea forums !
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Old 20-11-2011, 14:01   #8
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Re: Greece: My Resume

A man was traveling from one city to another city when he met an old lady sitting beside the road. Wanting to know about the people in the town he was traveling to, he stopped and asked the old lady, "What are the people like in the next town?"

She looked at him and asked, "How were the people like in the town that you came from?"
The traveler answered "Oh, they were wonderful, kind, courteous and friendly!"
The old lady said "They are the same in the next town."
The next day another man was traveling to the same city when he met the old lady sitting beside the road. Also wanting to know about the people in the town he was traveling to, he stopped and asked the old lady, "What are the people like in the next town?"
She looked at him and asked, "How were the people like in the town that you came from?"
"Oh, they were terrible, the meanest, most unfriendly people that you would ever meet."
The old lady looked at him and said "They are the same in the next town." I'll let you figure it out.
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Old 20-11-2011, 14:18   #9
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Re: Greece: My Resume

Good response Ram.
And you'd know the scene there better than most.
And you keep going back!

I've not been to Greece yet, but one of the boats on our short list to look at is on the island of Leros (sp?), so we would expect to have to spend some time there getting it cruise ready, or possibly move it across to Turkey where I've heard getting stuff done can be quite reasonable.

The point is, when you travel you have to accept the local population is what it is. Wishing they were different is a waste of good wishes.
But if your attitude is one of interest and respect, along with a bit of humour and a ready laugh, you get at least some of the locals on side and your whole experience is so much better.
I've travelled a fair bit and always find a few good experiences, along with some exasperating ones.
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Old 20-11-2011, 17:53   #10
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Re: Greece: My Résumé

Well said Ram
We spent 9 mo cruising Greece and loved being there, my wife is still mad at me for leaving, i loved the country for the relaxed atmoshere,good food,friendly people and tons of protected harbours and anchorages. Keep in mind Greece has a serious immigration problem and i believe the frustration felt by these unhappy immigrants is the cause for most of the pollution, I cannot wait to sail back there.
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Old 21-11-2011, 10:11   #11
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Re: Greece: My Résumé

I feel i need to add to this discussion as have many years experience working and cruising Greek waters, understand the people and their culture well, inasmuch have written two pilot books for the area.

I have never been rejected from Going alongside a fishing boat, especially if its the last conceivable place left to berth. The fishermen on the bigger boats are mostly Egyptian and are very pleasant. If you approach these fishermen in the right manner and with a smile, they help. After working and cruising in the Sporades, Saronic and Ionian, i can say that know many of the working boats and crews and never had a problem going alongside them. As long as you realise they usually head out and come back in the early hours for gas light fishing, they will accommodate.

There are lots of free and safe places to anchor. The nature of the prevailing winds mean that most of the ports and normal anchorages are on the southern, more sheltered sides of the islands. If you explore properly, you can find these sheltered places, away from winds. If you plan properly, are able to use shorelines properly, and have the right pilot book, you will find countless places to berth and anchor safely.

You list Nidri as a safe anchorage, and normally it is, but would like to highlight that a tornado came though the anchorage at the tail end of this season, tragically killing someone, flipping and sinking yachts and generally causing extensive damage. This incident reminds us that no where is 100% safe and if was not for the quick thinking and response of the local greeks, fisherman, expats and sailors working together, l personally believe there would have been many more fatalities.

You go on about the style and Greeks driving behaviour. I have to laugh at that as its probably one of the most delightful and refreshing things about the country that they dont live in a nanny state, with a society sheepishly conforming to unpractical rules and regulations. We should not have to live in police state and i personally would prefer that there is not a overly visible presence. The only time, in five years of living in Greece that i have felt threatened was by two drunken German and Swiss guy that were verbally abusing some female friends. They were sent on their way with the aid of some sober Greeks and situation did not escalate to the point that police were needed. I have never had any problem with the Port Police and have been helpful on many occasions, directing to more useful berths or finding engineers etc.

I have had the guts of a small shark thrown over the decks of a yacht but was principally my own fault. I was flying a skull and cross bones and now understand is very offensive to a lot of coastal greeks who families were decimated by pirates. It might be a fun thing for a lot of people but to some in a sever insult and if boot was on the other shoe would have probably have done the same thing.

Dave
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Old 21-11-2011, 14:29   #12
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Re: Greece: My Résumé

Quote:
Originally Posted by ionianpilot View Post
....... You go on about the style and Greeks driving behaviour. I have to laugh at that as its probably one of the most delightful and refreshing things about the country that they dont live in a nanny state, with a society sheepishly conforming to unpractical rules and regulations.
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Well said Dave. We have just returned from cruising in France & Italy and this is the one thing we tell everyone back here, it was like a breath of fresh air. They park anywhere they can, they cross solid white lines, scooters nip around from all directions and everyone takes it is their stride.

Contrast that to our first day back here (Melbourne Australia) where a driver in front of us turned right, probably a little closer than he intended, to a driver coming in the opposite direction. In France or Italy the oncoming driver would slow down or move over a little, avoid an incident and continue on their way. Here the driver speeded up and lent on his horn and almost tried to create an incident where one didn't really exist.

Me, I prefer the relaxed style of Europe and if Greece is like that, bring it on, we are going there next season.

Brownie
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Old 22-11-2011, 15:28   #13
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Re: Greece: My Résumé

Thanks a lot Brownie for your open mind about the french (I am French !), italian or greek way of driving... Even if it is not an example to follow... And thanks for your sense of humor regarding the australian way. Sure, you will be welcome in Greece !
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Old 25-11-2011, 01:46   #14
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Re: Greece: My Résumé

Quote:
Originally Posted by ionianpilot View Post
Of course, if somebody makes out his living from Greece, it is understandable to be blind and/or to see it different.

Do not worry, I have go PNs that agree with my point of view, however they do not want to out themselves.

Let everybodys different opinion !
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Old 25-11-2011, 02:53   #15
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Re: Greece: My Résumé

Concerning death rate in traffic in Greece see this:

List of countries by traffic-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The death rate in Greece is approx.
- two time higher than in Austria
- three times higher than in Germany
- three times higher than in Australia
.........

So I am not so wrong !?
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