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Old 24-02-2011, 04:41   #16
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I never could figure the high prices of Euro marinas. Do the marina owners conspire with the local city to restrict development and keep prices high ?
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Old 24-02-2011, 04:56   #17
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Re: European Boat Ownersip

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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
Nice looking place. Where is that?
Jersey - Old Jersey Les Isles Anglo-Normande. English Channel.





and from Finland it's enroute to the Med...........
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Old 24-02-2011, 04:58   #18
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Re: European Boat Ownersip

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I never could figure the high prices of Euro marinas. Do the marina owners conspire with the local city to restrict development and keep prices high ?
For personal interest, how much are we talking about for marina fees? I assume we are talking about yearly fees.

For comparison, I pay 350 euros for my 9mx3m 30f boat in Finland. That is most likely regarded as very high here, as cities have very cheap moorings. For that money, it's just a place to store the boat for summer, no water or electricity directly to the boat, but both are available in another pier as well as diesel.



Here's a link to webcamera showing the icy marina now

http://91.150.45.218:8080/view/viewe...x.shtml?id=675
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Old 24-02-2011, 05:10   #19
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Re: European Boat Ownersip

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Jersey - Old Jersey Les Isles Anglo-Normande. English Channel.

and from Finland it's enroute to the Med...........
Hehe, thanks, that much I do know where Jersey is. Bergerac was a good tv series
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Old 24-02-2011, 05:15   #20
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I know you will hate me but I'm afraid Finland is on the fringe. If you can access and enjoy those prices then you are indeed lucky.

I have been planning a voyage to the Med and can't find a winter berth for under 1000euro - 1500 is fairly typical. South coast UK costs even more. You can forget Italy. The price of a visitor berth in July or August is stratospheric at 30 - 50 euro per night. Apologies to all those Med habitues for whom this is all a giant yawn.

What I don't get is why some local dude in each town doesn't build a new marina with lower prices and try to steal the business. Europe is supposed to be broke so what is going on ?
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Old 24-02-2011, 05:32   #21
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Re: European Boat Ownersip

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I know you will hate me but I'm afraid Finland is on the fringe. If you can access and enjoy those prices then you are indeed lucky.

I have been planning a voyage to the Med and can't find a winter berth for under 1000euro - 1500 is fairly typical. South coast UK costs even more. You can forget Italy. The price of a visitor berth in July or August is stratospheric at 30 - 50 euro per night. Apologies to all those Med habitues for whom this is all a giant yawn.

What I don't get is why some local dude in each town doesn't build a new marina with lower prices and try to steal the business. Europe is supposed to be broke so what is going on ?
No offense taken

We are a backwater place when it comes to cruising I admit it, although there is more and more British, Canadian, French and US boats in the Baltic during summer months. Those just the nationalities that I spotted last summer.

I think the most expensive marina fee per night here is somewhere around 30 to 40 euros.

The British couple to whom I talked last summer were really excited, how cheap it is to cruise in Baltic sea. Warned us, that I will get a heart attack, when we get to Spain due to the marina fees
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Old 24-02-2011, 06:28   #22
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Re: European Boat Ownersip

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Hehe, thanks, that much I do know where Jersey is. Bergerac was a good tv series
And all based on Fact.

But we don't do all that sort of thing anymore. no sirree but then again, we didn't do that sort of thing back then either Nowadays we just do nothing in a different way
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Old 24-02-2011, 06:41   #23
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Re: European Boat Ownersip

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I know you will hate me but I'm afraid Finland is on the fringe. If you can access and enjoy those prices then you are indeed lucky.
On the Fringe, but less Pirates (the Vikings ate 'em ). I must go up that way at some point - probably initially by motorbike

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I have been planning a voyage to the Med and can't find a winter berth for under 1000euro - 1500 is fairly typical. South coast UK costs even more. You can forget Italy. The price of a visitor berth in July or August is stratospheric at 30 - 50 euro per night. Apologies to all those Med habitues for whom this is all a giant yawn.
I don't know my way around the Med, but I suspect much like other places in the world - most of it ain't on the internet, and turning up in person to ask a local likely to generate a different response than a website. Years back when moving around the world for extended periods (albeit sans boat) I always factored in that the initial learning curve was more expensive, simply takes time to build up your own knowledge of cheap / useful / better.

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What I don't get is why some local dude in each town doesn't build a new marina with lower prices and try to steal the business. Europe is supposed to be broke so what is going on ?
Expensive things Marinas to build . and many of the good places already have them (both location as a safe harbour - not all Marinas are the same) and from having something ashore that folk want. Like a Town or City. Up this way the EU spent a lot of money (in partnership with the locals) on Marinas amongst other things, like roads and bridges (investment for the long term - the Anglo Saxons amongst you may have to Google that concept )..........not all of it worked out well - but the Brits took a different approach of using cash that came back from the EU to drop the local rates bills (property taxes) down a penny or 2.
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Old 24-02-2011, 07:11   #24
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Re: European Boat Ownersip

re marina prices, our boat on the Hamble, at one of the cheapest yards to moor there cost 2500 per year for a 62', on a berth with no water or electric and you needed a dinghy to get there. For a walk on berth, it would have been half as much again 3750.
If we moved down river 200 yards we would of had to pay 12,170 per year. That's just short of $20,000 per year for our American cousins and they don't allow liveaboards.

There are cheap moorings available in the U.K. but they are getting harder and harder to find, and the NIMBY's don't like liveaboards, they like reporting them to the authorities.
I don't think they like looking at someone with a better view than theirs when they're sat on the balcony of their multi million pound riverside apartment.
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Old 24-02-2011, 17:56   #25
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Re: European Boat Ownersip

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I have been planning a voyage to the Med and can't find a winter berth for under 1000euro - 1500 is fairly typical. South coast UK costs even more. You can forget Italy. The price of a visitor berth in July or August is stratospheric at 30 - 50 euro per night. Apologies to all those Med habitues for whom this is all a giant yawn.

What I don't get is why some local dude in each town doesn't build a new marina with lower prices and try to steal the business. Europe is supposed to be broke so what is going on ?
Savoir, It may suprise you to learn that Europe is a very wealthy place in general and what with 20-25 days paid vacations ( low taxes etc), theres all these boaters, with there shiny euro-boats ( Europe being the biggest production boat builder) , boat ownership runs from about 1:7 ( norway) to 1:100(uk) so theres shedloads of boats ( as a visit to any marina will tell you). They all gravite to the Med, ( then add the russians), Hence few places and loads chasing them equals high prices.

Building more marinas, is difficult, France has them almost every 20Km, Italy less so, the environmental and town planning issues make it difficult to build more. ( and even then theyd fill up). Foreshore in Europe is often not private but owned by the state and this allows unrestricted access to beaches etc. so building marinas is hard to do.

Sorry mate, it just may be too dear for you guys ( only kidding).

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I have been planning a voyage to the Med and can't find a winter berth for under 1000euro - 1500 is fairly typical. South coast UK costs even more. You can forget Italy. The price of a visitor berth in July or August is stratospheric at 30 - 50 euro per night. Apologies to all those Med habitues for whom this is all a giant yawn.
actually that winter berth looks very good value. Id grab it quick, most ive seen are much more expensive.

I took a 40 footer around France, corsica, sardinia, sciliy, italy and greece this summer, average marina berth 50 euros, some 70 and one ( on sardinia), was 120 euros. Greece is cheaper and often has free or cheap town quay berths, as does croatia, not so Italy or france.

If you want to do the Med cheap, then forget marinas, anchor out , places like say the Rade de Villefranche etc are just glorious and free.

The other problem by the way, is that marinas start out with lots of visitors berths, then they long term rent them or sell 20 year leases, this then effectivley shrinks the number of visitors berths. Its a big problem in france, where in effect , marinas dont actually have ANY designated visitors berths, you have to luck in to use a berth where the owner is away. PITA

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Old 24-02-2011, 18:58   #26
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Re: European Boat Ownersip

currently pay 2500 a year,leaning against a wall between tides,put in my own power,water and internet,this is very cheap for a 63ft yacht.

the marina,if they had space would be 10 000 or $16 000 a year!!!!
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Old 24-02-2011, 19:05   #27
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Re: European Boat Ownersip

As if West Indies were any cheaper or something?

Funny.

Marinas are not charity shows, they are there to make money. They will charge as much as one can. And local governments will do everything to let the marinas do so - e.g. by building a marina where there used to be our anchorage ...

Little realism ....

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Old 24-02-2011, 19:13   #28
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Re: European Boat Ownersip

In Australia marinas have to pay the state for sea floor rental which is passed on to the boat owner.
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Old 24-02-2011, 19:18   #29
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Re: European Boat Ownersip

I don't think the OP's vision of the situation in the USA is correct, at least not here on the East Coast. Thirty years ago when I first started sailing and cruising it was much more egalitarian with regular families of school teachers, policemen, nurses, etc. out cruising on 30 footers. Today you are much more likely to be surrounded by doctors, lawyers, retired software execs, and retired bankers on 40-50 footers that have dinghies that cost more than the average boat 30 years ago. In fact, the peak numbers of cruising boats in the USA were experienced in the late 1980s, and since then there has been a dramatic shift in the market to fewer and much more expensive boats. I was just looking at a seasonal swinging mooring in a harbor I like and it would be $1750 for six months for a 38 footer in southeastern Massachusetts. If you can find a dock they start at around $100 per foot for the six month season and go up from there. A typical night in a New England marina is well over $100 for my 38 footer, so I never go there. Remember that the typical US boat is a trailerable small fishing boat that someone keeps in their driveway. It used to be, and I suspect it is still correct, that England and even New Zealand have more cruising size sailboats than we do in the USA. Boat ownership here is very broad across economic classes, but sailboat ownership is very much a white collar, upper middle class and up sport.
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Old 24-02-2011, 19:21   #30
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It isn't just the Med either. I came across an outfit in UK called Premier Marinas. They seem to be everywhere.

They typically want around 1200 pounds for the winter and 40 pounds per day in summer on a 40 footer.

OUCH !

I realise that this is all old news for you locals.
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