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Old 21-08-2013, 13:52   #46
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Re: Cruising From Barcelona To Croatia

So we just got to Central Croatia and immediately came across one of these concession bays. All moorings were taken, and my Other Half decided to see if we could get away with anchoring and not paying the fee (half price of a marina!!!).

Once the slightly tipsy "Concessioner" came up to our boat, they had a long discussion over this. At the end Concessioner said that he was impressed that my other half smiled and was polite throughout the whole argument and that we could get away with not paying if we moved the boat after he left the bay. We ended up going to a completely different anchorage after, but that's besides the point.

I had a look at JimB's page and came across this map from Ministry of Infrastructure: Ministarstvo pomorstva, prometa i infrastrukture - Pomorstvo - Sidri As you can see, most anchorages in mid-Croatia have been given over to concessions, whereas there are almost none in south and north Croatia.

So your experience with paying for anchoring really depends on where you sail.
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Old 21-08-2013, 15:17   #47
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Re: Cruising From Barcelona To Croatia

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Originally Posted by Katiusha View Post
We ended up going to a completely different anchorage after, but that's besides the point.

I had a look at JimB's page and came across this map from Ministry of Infrastructure: Ministarstvo pomorstva, prometa i infrastrukture - Pomorstvo - Sidri As you can see, most anchorages in mid-Croatia have been given over to concessions, whereas there are almost none in south and north Croatia.

So your experience with paying for anchoring really depends on where you sail.

I would expect these concessions to operate on a 'free-market' basis where the fee you pay justifies the convenience/comfort/safety etc you get.

It looks that these 'concessions' are nothing but government sponsored schemes (enforced by the local police) to allow certain friends of local politicians to enrich themselves by forcing boaters (take-or-pay) to use their services even if they don't want to.

I noticed the same 'free market' concept in Montenegro where local 'chiefs' have the most of the beaches under concession so you pay entrance fee and/or you must rent sun umbrella and beach lounge chairs. Not to mention that they have the monopoly on all drinks/alcohol sales at the beach bars.

Nice business model.

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Old 22-08-2013, 01:00   #48
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Re: Cruising From Barcelona To Croatia

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It looks that these 'concessions' are nothing but government sponsored schemes (enforced by the local police) to allow certain friends of local politicians to enrich themselves by forcing boaters (take-or-pay) to use their services even if they don't want to. <snip>

Nice business model.

A slightly less cynical view is that the most popular locations were becoming very crowded, and to fit more vessels in, fields of mooring buoys were laid. Of course, these have to be paid for to maintain them . . .

There are still hundreds of free anchorages. But they aren't so close to the major tourist attractions!
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Old 22-08-2013, 03:46   #49
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I would expect these concessions to operate on a 'free-market' basis where the fee you pay justifies the convenience/comfort/safety etc you get.

It looks that these 'concessions' are nothing but government sponsored schemes (enforced by the local police) to allow certain friends of local politicians to enrich themselves by forcing boaters (take-or-pay) to use their services even if they don't want to.

I noticed the same 'free market' concept in Montenegro where local 'chiefs' have the most of the beaches under concession so you pay entrance fee and/or you must rent sun umbrella and beach lounge chairs. Not to mention that they have the monopoly on all drinks/alcohol sales at the beach bars.

Nice business model.

We heard that owners of these concessions pay 50,000 EUR annually to the govt. That's about (or more than) a thousand boats per season. Big numbers considering not that many moorings (that we've seen). If you add in moorings maintenance (saw one power boat move a mooring to 30m depths and drop it there), maybe it's more of working on the margin that raking the money in.
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Old 22-08-2013, 09:56   #50
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Theres definitely a perception amongst croats in and around the marine industry that getting ahold of a concession is a licence to get rich. I agree that on latest auction numbers its probably more marginal than that these days. ( hence the introduction of pay to anchor in and around the concession as well as use buoys)

Its an evergrowing "industry" though and no shortage of aspiring concessionholders out there so expect north and south anchorages to be impacted over time. When you mention to locals that croatia is becoming too expensive to cruise due to concessions,vignettes, park fees etc the answer is usually pretty similar - boat numbers are up every year and thats through a recession so it must still be cheap.

Cant argue with that.
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Old 22-08-2013, 14:09   #51
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Re: Cruising From Barcelona To Croatia

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When you mention to locals that croatia is becoming too expensive to cruise due to concessions,vignettes, park fees etc the answer is usually pretty similar - boat numbers are up every year and thats through a recession so it must still be cheap.

Cant argue with that.
I would say it's not only the price but rather the beauty of that coast. And yes, you can't argue that it may be still cheap considering everything else.

On more techical matters, does anybody know a website where one can get an accurate info aboout the tides and especially the currents at the Otranto Straits? I read that some boats had tough times going against the current even with a decent wind.

Any practical experience would be helpful as well.

Thanks!
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Old 22-08-2013, 14:48   #52
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Re: Cruising From Barcelona To Croatia

well I didn;t have much fun from Saint maria de luca to Otranto, crappy seas and current up to 3 kn. Blog post on it here
Sephina: Messina to Montenegro
basically its the worst of the south going current over that 20 miles or so. Currents in the Adriatic follow the coastlines Anti clockwise. Current data is in the cruising guide, Ill take a picture if you need it, but expect at least 2 knots and more if its blowing from the N.
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Old 22-08-2013, 23:59   #53
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We encountered 3 kn adverse currents as well and well before de lucca actually. Once we rounded the head it got worse though with some amazingly nasty 3 foot slop waves with no backs on em on the nose.
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Old 23-08-2013, 19:00   #54
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Re: Cruising From Barcelona To Croatia

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We encountered 3 kn adverse currents as well and well before de lucca actually. Once we rounded the head it got worse though with some amazingly nasty 3 foot slop waves with no backs on em on the nose.
@Monte: your blog was useful - thanks! very consistent to what Barra was saying and what I read elsewhere.

We will be departing from the southern tip of Sicily sometime next week going north (NNE). The plan is to reach Leuca or Otranto in one go (with an overnight). As I haven't done that part before, and in combination with the currents which should get stronger as we come closer to the straits, I am wondering if that is doable (of course, depending on the winds).

Are you saying that there is nothing online to check for these currents other than what's in the cruising guide?
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Old 23-08-2013, 23:41   #55
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I think you just clock how much north wind has been blowing lately and judge from there ie if its been blowing consistently 20 plus like lately you can expect maybe what monte and i saw.

Re the overnight through there it really would be weather dependant as that part of italy is pretty notorious for intensified winds. We went from light winds and calm seas to 35 knots and steep 5 foot seas in minutes and i wouldnt have wanted to be the night watch then i can tell you!

Roccecella ionica is such a great stop though i know i would always break it up now.
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Old 24-08-2013, 00:52   #56
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Re: Cruising From Barcelona To Croatia

yeah Roccella is nice stop. Radio ahead to get the entrance passage clear. you need to give the breakwall a very wide berth (300m or so) to miss the sandbar, ill try find a chart and take a pic as well. even the marina entry is pretty narrow with sand build up each side.
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Old 24-08-2013, 01:02   #57
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Re: Cruising From Barcelona To Croatia

haha yeah good point monte - you brought a smile to my face remembering the 2 boats that wouldnt listen to all the yelling and radio calls as they ran aground at speed on that entrance bar. (Francesco (marina manager) bet the boat next to us they would be French "They never listen" - he won)

Always an afternoons entertainment as the fleet coming round from messina straight comes in! Who will spot the bar and who wont, who's listening on VHF and who isnt etc.
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Old 24-08-2013, 01:12   #58
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Re: Cruising From Barcelona To Croatia

couple of pics, Yeah Barra, funny place. My memory is of the MArina guy that yelled "SLOW DOWN" in the chf as I was entering, haha, I thought I was ok but he nearly made me crash he scared the crap outa me!, then he tells me over VHF, please leave your dog inside, I am VERY SCARED! haha, nice guy though, apparently bitten by a german shepard on the ass when he was a kid so maybe some emotional scarring as well as physical ...( I didnt ask to see)
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Old 24-08-2013, 03:13   #59
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A slightly less cynical view is that the most popular locations were becoming very crowded, and to fit more vessels in, fields of mooring buoys were laid. Of course, these have to be paid for to maintain them . . .

There are still hundreds of free anchorages. But they aren't so close to the major tourist attractions!
Another factor is that anchoring does churn up the seabed and damages the local underwater life. That it is especially in central Dalmatia that you find most moorings is not an accident. This is where the most popular national parks are.
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Old 24-08-2013, 05:11   #60
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Another factor is that anchoring does churn up the seabed and damages the local underwater life. That it is especially in central Dalmatia that you find most moorings is not an accident. This is where the most popular national parks are.
Cant agree with that. Kornati has around 30 moorings at last count only and its the biggest by far. If it was about the seabed kornati would have more than anywhere else. Its a money maker pure and simple. Theres more in central cos theres more boats especially charter types who feel safer on a buoy.
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