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Old 03-03-2016, 03:13   #46
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And let's not get onto the Irish. They're not born with webbed feet for nothing...

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Old 03-03-2016, 04:06   #47
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Re: Cruising Europe UK this coming summer

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OK, I get it !!! It's going to be cold and wet, but we will not die!!( we will of course, maybe soon ) But you have to understand that 40 degrees C here in Australia is not that great either. Can anyone recommend a heating system that will suffice for the late spring and summer into Oct? I think it might make life a bit more bearable for us. I checked the weather the other day where the boat is and it was -3 degrees but should be about 7 degrees to maybe 12 degrees when we arrive April 20th. Thanks for the help John
Heating is a whole science up here. Get it right and you're cosy year round. Get it wrong and you're miserable almost year round. Basically three more or less decent variants, all diesel fuel powered:

Type 1. Pot heater (Dickinsen, Sigmar, etc.) mounted on a bulkead, with a chimney through the deck. Plus sides: user serviceable, simple, zero electrical consumption. Downsides: have to cut a hole in the deck, takes up space, hard to modulate heat, soot on the sails.

Type 2. Air-based forced burner truck type heater (Webasto, Eberspacher, etc.). Mounted usually engine compartment or lazarette, exhaust through transom or topsides, takes up no interior space (and the unit itself is very compact). Heats via air ducts. Plus sides: can distribute heat over a larger area, very effective, relatively simple installation, relatively inexpensive. Downsides: noise, electrical consumption, requires professional service and maintenance, does not heat domestic hot water.

Type 3. Water-based ("hydronic") forced burner truck type heater (Webasto, Eberspacher, etc.). Like Type 2 except distributes heat using water, like a home central heating system. Plus sides: Can distribute heat to unlimited number of different spaces, most efficient, individual modulation of heat per space, heats domestic water (a VERY big plus), quiet (if you use radiators instead of fan coils). Downsides: electrical consumption, requires professional service and maintenance, expensive (about like air conditioning).


Around here, 90% of boats under 40 feet use Type 2 and 99% of those are happy with the system. Over 50 feet, 90% of boats use Type 3. Around here, Type 1 is more for traditionalists, historic vessels, adventurous voyagers who sail far from professional help.


So there you have it in a nutshell.

One other aspect of heating is the use of engine waste heat.

Domestic hot water is really important here because your tank water will be too cold to bathe in. You should have a proper calorifier with engine coolant loop in it and electrical immersion heater, but 99% of all cruising boats will be fitted with that from new. But not all of them have decent circulation of the coolant through the calorifier (don't ask me how I know), so worth checking and correcting if necessary, because this function is important.

You can also get extremely useful heat, at not great expense, and zero running costs, by running that same engine cooling loop through a bus heater in your main cabin. Then whenever you are motoring, you can get the cabin nice and toasty -- and DRY -- without expending any diesel fuel. To get the coolant through both calorifier and bus heater you might need a booster pump.


Good luck! With good heating, you will sail with pleasure year round. To lie at anchor on a cold evening but snug and warm inside is indescribably pleasant and cosy -- one of the joys of this sport.
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Old 03-03-2016, 05:36   #48
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Re: Cruising Europe UK this coming summer

Sorry if my comments alarmed you. Just to reassure you, the sun does come out here in N. Europe occasionally. I clearly remember an occasion back in July 1987... (only joking, of course - it has been out since then).

If it's any help, when we kept our previous boat in UK waters our season was from early April to mid/late September and we didn't have heating on the boat. With the right clothing it's not a problem.

What might be useful - especially on the inland waterways and when you go into marinas with 240v shore supply - is an oil-filled radiator. They give a surprising amount of heat but are not so energy-hungry as to trip the shore supply.

We use one on our motor yacht on the French canals at either end of the season (April and late September) when plugged in and it keeps the whole boat cosy.

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Old 03-03-2016, 20:04   #49
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Re: Cruising Europe UK this coming summer

Thanks Dockhead and Gordon,

I am familiar with all those heating systems as we used them in Canada when I lived there. Also due all the wood available over there many boats have wood heaters as trees are washed up everywhere, it's just a matter of going ashore with a chainsaw.

Right now I'm thinking of going with the Dickinson option as it's the simplest I think but the heat tends to be higher up near the deckhead and not near your feet. Maybe seeing it's not winter this will do us. Not sure if a woodburning stove would be any good unless we burn the manufactured wood that is available over there.

Thanks for the info anyway. John
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Old 03-03-2016, 20:21   #50
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Re: Cruising Europe UK this coming summer

I'm in the Netherlands and cold ... not really. Right now it's around 0C at night and 7C during the day. Next week it'll be around 7C at night and around 12C during the day.
Downside: it's raining a LOT.

I only have a small electrical (oil) heater standing by now, in case the boat gets too cold at night. I do have electrical blankets on the bed, so I don't really need a heater during the night Nor during the day, warm enough already (for me).

Having said that: we're used to these temps; if you're flying in being used to 40C, you will be cold probably But don't make it a bigger deal then it is. And for now, you can use a simple, cheap heater.

Since I'm still pondering what heating system I want (sytem 1 or 2, as Dockhead posted) I have managed just fine for 2 Dutch winters with just basic, portable heaters. Only a 29' boat, so it gets warm quickly. Even just a decent oil lamp makes a big difference
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Old 04-03-2016, 00:12   #51
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Re: Cruising Europe UK this coming summer

Thanks LizzyBelle

Will just have to see what it's like when we get there. The boat is in dry storage at present and we have access to power I think so should not be too hard as we can buy a oil heater and plug in until we put the boat in the water. I tend to stay away from marinas etc as I like to keep costs down so we might just wear more clothes and cuddle up at night. Still not as bad as being a refugee!!!
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Old 04-03-2016, 16:43   #52
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Re: Cruising Europe UK this coming summer

If unsure about whether the installed cooker is up to scratch, there is an option that works as a heater as well. The Origo 5100, non-pressurised alcohol stove, and it puts out 1500 watts of heat:

Origo 5100 Portable Spirit Burner/Alcohol Stove: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike

I picked one up to take to the USA with me to pick up my boat, as the cold does me in, denatured alcohol is pretty cheap there, and easily available.

You will get some condensation from it though.

The two burner Origo 3000 cooking stoves are good value here too, and easy to fit (if I could have got one in my luggage, I would have bought one instead of the 5100):


Dometic ORIGO 3000 2-Burner Alcohol-Fueled Free-Standing Camping Stove: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike


Have a great trip.
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Old 05-03-2016, 21:29   #53
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Re: Cruising Europe UK this coming summer

Thanks Ribbit,

Used to have something like this 30 years ago but there was a fair bit of condensation if I remember correctly. We've decided to wait till we get on board and see how the weather is. Also have looked at getting a very small airtight wood stove.
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Old 06-03-2016, 07:38   #54
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Re: Cruising Europe UK this coming summer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribbit View Post
If unsure about whether the installed cooker is up to scratch, there is an option that works as a heater as well. The Origo 5100, non-pressurised alcohol stove, and it puts out 1500 watts of heat:

Origo 5100 Portable Spirit Burner/Alcohol Stove: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike

I picked one up to take to the USA with me to pick up my boat, as the cold does me in, denatured alcohol is pretty cheap there, and easily available.

You will get some condensation from it though.

The two burner Origo 3000 cooking stoves are good value here too, and easy to fit (if I could have got one in my luggage, I would have bought one instead of the 5100):


Dometic ORIGO 3000 2-Burner Alcohol-Fueled Free-Standing Camping Stove: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike


Have a great trip.
Alcohol is sure safer than propane for cooking.


I wouldn't use it up here for heating, however. You shouldn't breathe combustion products, which can include carbon monoxide as well as the poisons which are used to denature the alcohol. And the condensation is awful.

For heating, you want to get any combustion products involved out of the boat.
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Old 06-03-2016, 07:40   #55
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Re: Cruising Europe UK this coming summer

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Originally Posted by picklesandjesse View Post
Thanks Ribbit,

Used to have something like this 30 years ago but there was a fair bit of condensation if I remember correctly. We've decided to wait till we get on board and see how the weather is. Also have looked at getting a very small airtight wood stove.
Or coal, which is easier to store.

Solid fuel is a traditional solution around here, but pretty labor intensive, and you have to deal with the soot on deck and in the rigging.

But cheap, and quite cosy. AFAIK this is also quite popular in the PNW and Alaska.
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Old 06-03-2016, 07:53   #56
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pirate Re: Cruising Europe UK this coming summer

Dockhead.. you don't have enough money to induce me to keep my liquid fuel stove..

Do like the Force10 heater.. visible flame with flame failure device and tiny flue in comparison to the diesel versions..
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Old 07-03-2016, 14:19   #57
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Re: Cruising Europe UK this coming summer

For occasional heating we use an old oil lamp like http://www.vermontlanterns.com/sites...891_a_hl_2.jpg

I wouldn't want to rely on it in the winter, but for spring and fall use in northern Europe it provides a lot of heat.
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Old 07-03-2016, 15:01   #58
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Re: Cruising Europe UK this coming summer

When we built our first little cabin in British Columbia 10ft x 8ft with a loft we heated it with a Coleman lamp that you pump, uses a white spirit. This kept us warm in shoulder seasons but have an idea that it might have been depriving us of oxygen........ thus the current brain damage!!! or was that the 60's???
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Old 07-03-2016, 15:07   #59
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Re: Cruising Europe UK this coming summer

On a 28ft yacht its going to be blown air heating system. Plan on £1000 and a days work to fit. This price needs 20% VAT adding:

Webasto heater Air Top 2000 STC Diesel Single Outlet 12v | 4111385C

The ST2000 will heat our Moody 31 quickly to toasty warm and then require turning down or we slowly cook. We have used it in August and its great at drying out the boat, us and the dog if its been raining.

The one other thing you need on a 28 ft yacht is one of these to create an extra room. It allows the wash boards to be left out to assist ventilation, gives somewhere to put wet wellies and foulies without taking them down stairs, and well you get the picture:

Habitent - Adjustable Cockpit Enclosures

The same made to measure in sombrella material will be £1500.
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Old 07-03-2016, 15:33   #60
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Re: Cruising Europe UK this coming summer

Thanks Pete, looks good. The boat already has a full cockpit enclosure which was one of the reasons we bought it. Also the mast in a tabernacle and the lowering system.
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