Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-12-2018, 10:15   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Edmond, OK
Posts: 78
Cat or Mono for holding value

Any/all opinions on this would be appreciated and thanks in advance. This may have been discussed here before, but I'm not easily finding discussions close to our situation.

Here is our scenario. We are U.S.-based now, but I'm looking at an interesting opportunity in Tangier Morocco that would last a couple of years. One cool option would be to liveaboard during that time. Tangier has a great new marina and a boat-based life would make Med explorations during that time pretty easy.

My question goes to a boat purchase for this. We'd want a European boat to support the Euro power service there, so we'd be buying over there. Because this is a temporary situation, the future sale of that boat will be important to us. We'll probably have $200K to $250K to put into the purchase. This would get us into a 10 year old 40' ex-charter cat or a much newer 40'-42' mono. Either would work fine, but the cat would probably be more comfortable as a daily home. (However, the cat would also require higher moorage costs during that time.)

Here's the question. As an investment, which option do you think would hold its value better? It's given that we'd be putting it back on the market in 2 to 4 years and we are realistic about boat values and what we'd get back out of it vs. what we paid. The question is to the perceived holding value of cats vs. monos in the Med (and elsewhere). Cat demand seems to be pretty brisk right now. What do you think for our situation? For maximizing our investment, 10 year old cat or 2-4 year old mono?

One other option would be for us to sail the boat back to the Caribbean or US at the end of that time and selling it here. This would involve dealing with Euro electrical system conversion or adaptation. Thanks for your opinion!
__________________

Tetra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2018, 10:21   #2
Registered User
 
Kenomac's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pangaea
Posts: 10,627
Re: Cat or Mono for holding value

All boats only depreciate in value, it probably won’t make any difference which one you choose. Keep in mind that Europeans will expect you to pay their sales/VAT tax when it comes time to sell the boat.
__________________

Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2018, 10:29   #3
Registered User
 
Dennis.G's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Sea of Cortez and the U.P. of Michigan
Boat: Celestial 48
Posts: 827
Re: Cat or Mono for holding value

I think regardless of boat type that a boat only 2-4 years old will depreciate more over a couple of years than the 10 year old boat. When you sell a 4 year old boat that you bought as a 2 year old boat it is twice as old as when purchased and on steeper part of depreciation curve.

Depending much on location, to berth a cat can be a LOT more expensive or not even available. If need to be in a specific location would want to know ahead of time of boat purchase.
Dennis.G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2018, 10:39   #4
Registered User
 
danielamartindm's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
Boat: Leopard 39
Posts: 860
Re: Cat or Mono for holding value

A boat is not an investment, it's a depreciating asset; I think the same factors of depreciation apply to both monos and multis.
danielamartindm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2018, 12:25   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Kemah TX
Boat: Cruisers Yacht, 3870 - 43 LOA
Posts: 174
Re: Cat or Mono for holding value

ShellBack89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2018, 15:22   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 10,839
Re: Cat or Mono for holding value

Tetra, you used the word "investment" twice in reference to a boat. An "investment" is something that has the potential to earn a profit...boats dont qualify.

A good boat, well maintained, will tend to hold its value pretty well after the new depreciation runs its course. I dont think mono or cat will make any difference in depreciation. However, local market demand will affect how easy it is to sell.

Depreciation aside, cost to carry a boat is stoopid high. If you add up all the costs: dockage, maintenance, upgrades, insurance, cost of capital (even if you pay cash there is a cost). I expect the total would easily exceed any depreciation.

Case in point. My first cruising boat was a relatively inexpensive used monohull. I sold it about 6 years later for $5K more than I paid for it...so I got my capital back plus a little. However, the total cost of ownership during that time period exceeded the market value of the boat by a factor of about 2.5! Admittedly that cost included some substantial upgrades, but even minus the upgrades it would have exceeded the cost of the boat.

An oft stated, but mostly anecdotal, number for cost to carry is 10% per year. I suggest you total up your estimated costs, then increase them by a substantial percentage, to get an idea of what this will really set you back.
belizesailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2018, 15:34   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Edmond, OK
Posts: 78
Re: Cat or Mono for holding value

Good comments one and all. Yeah, ignore the word investment and I understand how depreciation and cost-of-ownership works. I was hoping here to get a feel for the marketability of cats vs. monos these days. I hear how hot the catamaran market is these days and am wondering if I should give cats greater consideration, as the demand for them might make them hold their value better than (my preferred) monos. Given the demand I'm hearing, I find it hard to believe that both boat types are devaluing at the same pace. The other financial calculations are appreciated and are already in my equation. Thanks!
Tetra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2018, 15:53   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Everywhere
Boat: 2011 FP Orana 44 M
Posts: 766
Re: Cat or Mono for holding value

I don't know so much about "value" but I think catamarans will be easier to resell than monohulls.

I think value is less to do with configuration and more to do with original quality and how well it is maintained. After that, the target audience comes into play. I found when selling things on Craigslist that my "IKEA" quality of furniture sold for much closer to its original price than any of my much higher quality stuff. For example, a $100 IKEA table would sell for $70, when a $500 table might sell for $100. I've had similar experiences with cars and houses. People buying stuff used have a maximum budget and little respect for higher quality things.
LoudMusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2018, 16:19   #9
Registered User
 
Kenomac's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pangaea
Posts: 10,627
Re: Cat or Mono for holding value

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudMusic View Post
I don't know so much about "value" but I think catamarans will be easier to resell than monohulls.

I think value is less to do with configuration and more to do with original quality and how well it is maintained. After that, the target audience comes into play. I found when selling things on Craigslist that my "IKEA" quality of furniture sold for much closer to its original price than any of my much higher quality stuff. For example, a $100 IKEA table would sell for $70, when a $500 table might sell for $100. I've had similar experiences with cars and houses. People buying stuff used have a maximum budget and little respect for higher quality things.
Excellent analysis, our experience has been the same.
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2018, 17:24   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 586
Re: Cat or Mono for holding value

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis.G View Post
I think regardless of boat type that a boat only 2-4 years old will depreciate more over a couple of years than the 10 year old boat. When you sell a 4 year old boat that you bought as a 2 year old boat it is twice as old as when purchased and on steeper part of depreciation curve.
This. Exactly
Chotu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2018, 18:34   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 10,839
Re: Cat or Mono for holding value

Well, if you could pick up a Lagoon 38 at a good price, you might be able to sell it at a premium in a few years:

Lagoon 380 to end production in spring


Lagoon 380 to end production in spring
belizesailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2018, 18:39   #12
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 4,234
Re: Cat or Mono for holding value

It was a sellers market for years when it came to Catamaran’s but I see this leveling out as the market is getting saturated.
Catamaran or monohull it all depends on whether you get a really good deal when purchasing. We have yet to lose money on any of the Catamaran’s we’ve purchased, but the hourly wage we’ve made refitting them has been dismal!
smj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2018, 21:57   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Everywhere
Boat: 2011 FP Orana 44 M
Posts: 766
Re: Cat or Mono for holding value

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
It was a sellers market for years when it came to Catamaran’s but I see this leveling out as the market is getting saturated.
Catamaran or monohull it all depends on whether you get a really good deal when purchasing. We have yet to lose money on any of the Catamaran’s we’ve purchased, but the hourly wage we’ve made refitting them has been dismal!
Market saturation even after all the losses from hurricanes? There was more than a two year waiting list for new boats not that long ago.
LoudMusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2018, 23:11   #14
Registered User
 
Kenomac's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pangaea
Posts: 10,627
Re: Cat or Mono for holding value

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudMusic View Post
Market saturation even after all the losses from hurricanes? There was more than a two year waiting list for new boats not that long ago.
Not so much market saturation, but the market for used boats is dead. The stock markets worldwide going into what will probably be a longish bear market and/or correction in 2019, and rising interest rates that will effect the US and worldwide housing markets.

People are worried about this stuff... not about buying a boat. Chartering for most seems to be the safer economic choice with no long term commitment of ownership.
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2018, 23:24   #15
Registered User
 
boom23's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Med.
Boat: Amel 50
Posts: 786
Re: Cat or Mono for holding value

Buy real estate...
A boat is not a good investment.
__________________

boom23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Insurance policies: agreed value or actual cash value? mnackerman General Sailing Forum 17 16-06-2016 07:51
Cats vs Mono..why a mono Duke95 General Sailing Forum 191 28-07-2015 00:20
Boat Insurance: Agreed Value vs Actual Cash Value Policies Robertson Dollars & Cents 19 04-02-2013 14:13
Holding Tank Holding Tank Leaff Construction, Maintenance & Refit 17 01-07-2012 05:12



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:52.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.