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Old 28-07-2018, 06:35   #1
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Canal-friendly coastal motor sailers (lifting keel + hinged mast)

While researching modestly sized, European-canal-friendly coastal motor sailers I came across the MacGregor 26C, which features both a lifting keel and hinged (fold-down) mast - the latter, for a single-handed sailor, greatly simplifying the transition from canal to more open sailing waters .

I find myself wondering if any other modest (less than 9m/30') coastal motor sailers share these two features.

Any suggestions welcome. Thanks!
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Old 29-07-2018, 04:11   #2
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Re: Canal-friendly coastal motor sailers (lifting keel + hinged mast)

How about this?

8 Meter lifting keel sailing vessel.
Gunter rigged, loose footed main.
Roller reefing head sail.
Jennika (with 'snuffer sock').
Inboard axillary.
18 inch draft (keel up)
5 feet draft (keel down)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/yacht-sai...ropeller&rt=nc
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Old 29-07-2018, 04:26   #3
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Re: Canal-friendly coastal motor sailers (lifting keel + hinged mast)

Some of the Catalac 8m & 9m have a tabernacle mast with shallow draft.
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Old 30-07-2018, 04:00   #4
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Re: Canal-friendly coastal motor sailers (lifting keel + hinged mast)

What about a Seadog? https://www.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=559095

Shallow enough for the canals and the mast is in a tabernacle. Not very speedy under sail, but probably better than a Mac 26.

I suspect the aft cabin will become 'the cupboard under the stairs' or 'the garden shed'.
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Old 02-08-2018, 09:54   #5
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Re: Canal-friendly coastal motor sailers (lifting keel + hinged mast)

The three suggestions remain -despite a long and fairly thorough search- the only ones to satisfy my two preferences. Well done. Almost prescient. :-)

That said, they led me in part over some equally interesting alternative finds. The whaler, for example, led me to the no doubt similarly entertaining Folkeboot. Though catamarans hadn't really occurred to me, the Catalac's all-round visibility would be a huge bonus on the inland waterways of France, Ireland, Poland, or along the winding course of the Danube. Given the likelihood of visiting family or friends, a quiet aft berth or two would be particularly appealing. In this context, the Seadog 30 -apparently at a pinch bluewater capable- led quickly to related concepts in the Westerly Pentland, Moody 31 MKII and Colvic Countess 28.

Still, at the end of the day, it's easy to drift towards overkill for one person, and shallow water (beach) access and mast dropping remain firm wishes.

That said, I somehow expected the combination of shallow coastal and canal use to be a fairly widespread preference, and admit -given the vast diversity of yacht designs- to being a little taken aback at the scarcity of the offerings.

With a year or two to go before being turned out to graze, I'm in no wild hurry. Thanks, though, for the suggestions so far. All spot on, and have helped enormously. :-)

BTW, on closer research, it turns out that the MacGregor 26C's keel is of the pivoted kind, bringing it (for me) into line with many other retractable keel designs. I had assumed it was drawn up vertically.. Beginner's naivity. For the moment, I find myself leaning towards the Seadog 30, but will be returning periodically to see what -and if anything- else turns up.

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Old 13-08-2018, 23:45   #6
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Re: Canal-friendly coastal motor sailers (lifting keel + hinged mast)

Have a look at Lemsterark's (not sure of the correct spelling) in Holland. A friend has a 30 foot one and she sails beautifully. Also with a 40hp engine she powers along nicely in any sea state. Mast in a tabernacle for easy dropping. Full standing headroom and space forward for a full size berth.
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Old 14-08-2018, 03:06   #7
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Re: Canal-friendly coastal motor sailers (lifting keel + hinged mast)

Lemsteraak is a traditional Dutch design, flat bottom with lee-boards, but many variations on this design have been built; never seen any smaller than ~34 ft, but he above post shows that there are.
They are heavy boats, even though they have no keel as such. They were quite pricey the last time I looked. Compared with all the flat bottom lee-board boats, they are possible one of the best and most seaworthy designs, and sail reasonably well.
However if those kind of boats attract the original poster, then there are dozens or so other similar designs around, in wood, steel or GRP. Both photos found on the net.
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Old 14-08-2018, 07:14   #8
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Re: Canal-friendly coastal motor sailers (lifting keel + hinged mast)

Are any of this last style also capable of being upfitted for safe deep ocean passagemaking?

Or does the hull / keel design make for danger in big waves?
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Old 14-08-2018, 08:03   #9
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Re: Canal-friendly coastal motor sailers (lifting keel + hinged mast)

Thuggles,


Enjoy the search, and welcome to CF.


As you may be aware, the MacGregor boats are water ballasted. They can be hauled on a trailer with the water drained out, making them much lighter than a lead ballasted boat would be. The ballast tanks use up some of the interior space, and they do not handle as well as lead ballasted craft (though there are widely divergent opinions on the extent of the difference). They are not motor sailors, as they do not have standing room in the cabin and have provisions for an outboard motor rather than an inboard.


There are two classes of boats you may have missed.


First, there are boats in the 24-26' range with a shallow, ballasted keel that typically draw between two and three feet with the board up, and will sail acceptably in that configuration. Most also have a board that can be lowered while a few do not. Nearly all have a mast hinge. My own boat is an example of this category. S2, Hunter, and many others have made similar craft. A very few were made with inboards.



Second, there are the unusual English boats that sail the Norfolk Broads. These are, insofar as I can tell, the only boats in the world that are designed with a counterweighted mast that can be lowered and raised without the use of lines. They are shallow draft. You might find some videos of the races that go through the Potter Heigham bridge, which I think has the tightest clearance of any bridge used routinely by sailboats.


I occasionally run across ads (here in the USA) for smaller "motor sailors" that are best understood as being motor yachts with a mast and rig suitable for downwind sailing. I am unsure whether they have swing keels.


Any true motor sailor is going to have sufficient windage that upwind performance is poor even with a centerboard down.
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Old 15-08-2018, 02:59   #10
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Re: Canal-friendly coastal motor sailers (lifting keel + hinged mast)

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
Are any of this last style also capable of being upfitted for safe deep ocean passagemaking?

Or does the hull / keel design make for danger in big waves?
John, I am no expert in these. I sailed a 43 ft version of the Lemsteraak, absolute delight. As fishing boats and trading ships some of them used to ply the Northsea and Baltic, but to cross the Atlantic? Doubt it very much, better google that one:

https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/d...s.11316/page-5

Lemsteraak and Zeeschouw Type Boats for Cruising ? [Sitemap] - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

https://www.hoekdesign.com/dutch-lee...ts/lemsteraken

Does not look like it.......but....... the original poster did not want that, so still might be a good, but expensive option for him.
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Old 15-08-2018, 11:19   #11
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Re: Canal-friendly coastal motor sailers (lifting keel + hinged mast)

I must admit that the Lemsteraaks are a tad pricey. My mates one is a beauty though and I have had improper thoughts about it many a time. The Zeeschouws are a cheaper alternative. Have a look at botentekoop.nl lots of canal capable flat bottomed sailing boats there.
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Old 15-08-2018, 18:30   #12
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Re: Canal-friendly coastal motor sailers (lifting keel + hinged mast)

This is a Polish boat, likely Baltic I'm interested in, few details available from the seller.

https://m.ebay.com/itm/22-ft-Custom-...r/142897062906

Some say looks related to traditional Scandinavian 'Koster' boats

maybe something like https://www.google.com/search?q=Kost...+Paul+Gartside

and possibly offshore seaworthy, Viking DNA. . .

Further discussion here Anyone know about this Polish boat?

if not of interest to the OP.
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Old 15-08-2018, 18:41   #13
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Re: Canal-friendly coastal motor sailers (lifting keel + hinged mast)

The Westerly Centaurs are twin keel, designed to be beached but very seaworthy.

Apparently rigging a tabernacle for "easy" demasting is not a great challenge.
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Old 24-08-2018, 12:33   #14
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Re: Canal-friendly coastal motor sailers (lifting keel + hinged mast)

John, your next boat. Do you want me to bid on it for you?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Steel-Sai...8AAOSwUXFbQ1CS
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