Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-02-2016, 11:20   #46
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: UK winter, Greece summer
Boat: Charter vessels!
Posts: 282
Re: Buying a boat in the Med

Quote:
Stumbling blocks
VAT. If you buy a boat which is outside the EU, it will not be VAT paid. It's use within the EU will be limited to periods of 18 months, after which it needs to spend a few days outside the EU before returning. For most cruising folk, this is not a problem. It is a problem if you or your crew have the right to reside within the EU. Read Documents, VAT and Waste Control | JimB Sail

If you buy a boat inside the EU, it will be VAT paid. Ensure the Bill of Sale says "including VAT" and the receipt states the amount of VAT paid. Such a boat can remain within the EU indefinitely.

Passports and Residence. If you have the right to reside in the EU (Check what your UK passport says . . .) you can remain in any EU country as long as you wish, but you could become a tax resident if you spend more than 182 days out of 365 in any one country. This seems unlikely in your circumstances.

Your girlfriend may be limited by Schengen rules if she only has an NZ passport. Luckily, NZ citizens have the right to visit many EU countries for up to a year at a time. Check details with country embassies you are likely to visit, and what conditions may apply.

Registration. It will not matter where the boat is registered if it is VAT paid. But if it is registered outside the EU, your VAT status will be checked.

Where? Locations? As to where to Cruise in the Med, and where to base your boat, start with The Mediterranean | JimB Sail and then dig down into deeper pages. Most popular live-aboard bases and reliable boat yards for storage are mentioned there.

Where to cruise? It's a toss-up. The most interesting and easier cruising areas become very crowded and expensive in the peak mid-summer 6 weeks. More challenging wind areas (Aegean) rarely get crowded, and are very rewarding, but you'll need good ground tackle and long scopes.

Your plan is sound. Happy reading!

JimB
__________________

__________________
jckb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2016, 06:15   #47
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Croatia
Posts: 9
Re: Buying a boat in the Med

Dear Blake,

if you will consider buying a boat in Croatia I could connect you with my friend and colleague which can offer you used or new boats for a really attractive price and also fix you with annual mooring or whatever your needs may be when it comes to Adriatic Sea.

Dont hesitate to contact me for more information.

Bye,
Andreas
__________________

__________________
andreas0305 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2016, 13:42   #48
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Europe
Posts: 14
Re: Buying a boat in the Med

Quote:
Originally Posted by jckb View Post
VAT. If you buy a boat which is outside the EU, it will not be VAT paid. It's use within the EU will be limited to periods of 18 months, after which it needs to spend a few days outside the EU before returning. For most cruising folk, this is not a problem. It is a problem if you or your crew have the right to reside within the EU. Read Documents, VAT and Waste Control | JimB Sail

If you buy a boat inside the EU, it will be VAT paid. Ensure the Bill of Sale says "including VAT" and the receipt states the amount of VAT paid. Such a boat can remain within the EU indefinitely.

Passports and Residence. If you have the right to reside in the EU (Check what your UK passport says . . .) you can remain in any EU country as long as you wish, but you could become a tax resident if you spend more than 182 days out of 365 in any one country. This seems unlikely in your circumstances.

Your girlfriend may be limited by Schengen rules if she only has an NZ passport. Luckily, NZ citizens have the right to visit many EU countries for up to a year at a time. Check details with country embassies you are likely to visit, and what conditions may apply.

Registration. It will not matter where the boat is registered if it is VAT paid. But if it is registered outside the EU, your VAT status will be checked.

Where? Locations? As to where to Cruise in the Med, and where to base your boat, start with The Mediterranean | JimB Sail and then dig down into deeper pages. Most popular live-aboard bases and reliable boat yards for storage are mentioned there.

Where to cruise? It's a toss-up. The most interesting and easier cruising areas become very crowded and expensive in the peak mid-summer 6 weeks. More challenging wind areas (Aegean) rarely get crowded, and are very rewarding, but you'll need good ground tackle and long scopes.

Your plan is sound. Happy reading!

JimB
Thanks JCKB for the concise information. You obviously know what you are talking about! I will check out the link you have provided. Thanks again,
Blake
__________________
Blake_NZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2016, 13:47   #49
Registered User
 
vtomanov's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: UK , London
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Liberty 34
Posts: 131
Re: Buying a boat in the Med

if you are interested in place != Greece - then <10m is the size to go for.. HUGE difference in mooring/marina prices for >10m and <10m
__________________
vtomanov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2016, 17:36   #50
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Europe
Posts: 14
Re: Buying a boat in the Med

Quote:
Originally Posted by vtomanov View Post
if you are interested in place != Greece - then <10m is the size to go for.. HUGE difference in mooring/marina prices for >10m and <10m
Thanks vtomanov, yes I agree with you, but I'm after something in the 13-14 metre range
__________________
Blake_NZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2016, 20:46   #51
Registered User
 
vtomanov's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: UK , London
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Liberty 34
Posts: 131
Re: Buying a boat in the Med

UK is best for tegistration , but you need to be a UK resident if not your case then the next option is Dutch flag - available to everyone... and the biat need to be EU registered with VAT paid - the other options are not really viable

regarding size - 3 years ago I was in similar position - having a 42 feet boat and plat to move it in the centre med from Greece - after careful investigation I decided to go with smaller boat Sun Liberty 34 - Jeanneau - 9.98 hull size - 10.30 overall but different desing , spacios and houmy and very happy with the choice that I made

mooring : I've been in Spain-Alucante and Barcelona and finally found a great place St Cyprien in the french coast very readonable price and good exploring area ...
__________________
vtomanov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2016, 20:56   #52
Registered User
 
vtomanov's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: UK , London
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Liberty 34
Posts: 131
Re: Buying a boat in the Med

another important thing for the med is that racing boats like Syn Fast or Bene First are not very useful as two factors are showstoppers for longer periods on a boat in the med : 1. full size bimini - any small compromise with the shade in the cockpit and you will desperatly want to sell asap you boat ;2. draught >2m is a sirious limitation factor and compromises are not really practical
__________________
vtomanov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2016, 01:05   #53
Registered User
 
hoppy's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia and the boat is in Pittwater
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 40
Posts: 2,729
Re: Buying a boat in the Med

Quote:
Originally Posted by vtomanov View Post
if you are interested in place != Greece - then <10m is the size to go for.. HUGE difference in mooring/marina prices for >10m and <10m
sure, every size you go up is more expensive but there is no point where the next level is what would be caused a "huge" difference. At least that's the case for Corfu & Lefkas marinas.
__________________
S/Y Jessabbé http://www.jessabbe.com/
hoppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2016, 01:16   #54
Registered User
 
hoppy's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia and the boat is in Pittwater
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 40
Posts: 2,729
Re: Buying a boat in the Med

Quote:
Originally Posted by vtomanov View Post
another important thing for the med is that racing boats like Syn Fast or Bene First are not very useful as two factors are showstoppers for longer periods on a boat in the med : 1. full size bimini - any small compromise with the shade in the cockpit and you will desperatly want to sell asap you boat ;2. draught >2m is a sirious limitation factor and compromises are not really practical
I agree that any boat with the main in the cockpit will be far less comfortable undersail because it lacks a decent bimini. However if you only use the boat 4-6 weeks of the season and avoid late June, July & August then it is less of a discomfort and you get the bonus of less crowds At anchor you do need to setup a tent for shade.

I don't see draft as a great issue. With my 1.95m I occasionally have to avoid town quays but there is hardly ever been a place where I've gone that I would have had to avoid even with 2.5m draft. I don't feel like cutting it fine and would rather anchor out.
__________________
S/Y Jessabbé http://www.jessabbe.com/
hoppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2016, 00:34   #55
Registered User
 
robbinsfamily's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: NZ
Posts: 15
Re: Buying a boat in the Med

Quote:
Originally Posted by jckb View Post
VAT. If you buy a boat which is outside the EU, it will not be VAT paid. It's use within the EU will be limited to periods of 18 months, after which it needs to spend a few days outside the EU before returning. For most cruising folk, this is not a problem. It is a problem if you or your crew have the right to reside within the EU. Read Documents, VAT and Waste Control | JimB Sail

If you buy a boat inside the EU, it will be VAT paid. Ensure the Bill of Sale says "including VAT" and the receipt states the amount of VAT paid. Such a boat can remain within the EU indefinitely.

Passports and Residence. If you have the right to reside in the EU (Check what your UK passport says . . .) you can remain in any EU country as long as you wish, but you could become a tax resident if you spend more than 182 days out of 365 in any one country. This seems unlikely in your circumstances.

Your girlfriend may be limited by Schengen rules if she only has an NZ passport. Luckily, NZ citizens have the right to visit many EU countries for up to a year at a time. Check details with country embassies you are likely to visit, and what conditions may apply.

Registration. It will not matter where the boat is registered if it is VAT paid. But if it is registered outside the EU, your VAT status will be checked.

Where? Locations? As to where to Cruise in the Med, and where to base your boat, start with The Mediterranean | JimB Sail and then dig down into deeper pages. Most popular live-aboard bases and reliable boat yards for storage are mentioned there.

Where to cruise? It's a toss-up. The most interesting and easier cruising areas become very crowded and expensive in the peak mid-summer 6 weeks. More challenging wind areas (Aegean) rarely get crowded, and are very rewarding, but you'll need good ground tackle and long scopes.

Your plan is sound. Happy reading!

JimB
Hi Jim, your info and website is great thanks, though I'm still a bit overwhelmed with the info. I have a Kiwi Passport and a dutch passport, my husband has a kiwi only, our three kids have both kiwi and dutch. We were planning to buy a boat in greece early 2017 and cruise and live in europe for the next few years, would you recommend us buying a boat with or without vat paid, where should we register it? (NZ?) What is the best option to make the most of having both kiwi and EU passports? Also how does my husband get residency? Appreciate any clarification you can give as reading all these threads are quite confusing when it doesn't apply directly to our situation! Also where is best to buy the boat?
__________________
robbinsfamily is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2016, 01:19   #56
Registered User
 
hoppy's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia and the boat is in Pittwater
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 40
Posts: 2,729
Re: Buying a boat in the Med

When I changed my flag from Sweden to Aussie, I went to the customs office in Corfu to get my transit papers. Ahead of me in the queue was a Kiwi family who also had British passports. They bought their boat in Tunisia and sailed to Italy. There they had no problems at all being on a Kiwi boat but using their British passports to skip the Schengen restrictions. Corfu was a whole different matter for them. The Greeks wanted to treat them as British with a non-EU flagged untaxed vessel and would only give them a 30 day transit document. This is despite them being Kiwi and not EU resident.

Then it was my turn. My boat was previously Swedish registered and is VAT paid and had been in Greece owned by me using the DEPKA document. I have an Australian and Swedish passport. The same guy tried to also give me the 30 day transit document and could not be bothered that my boat is VAT paid (bought from UK owner in Greece). After my protests, the his called his manager. He told me to use my Australian passport (no issues with checking visa on it) and gave me an 18 month transit document.

In theory you should be ok with an untaxed Kiwi boat (have lots of paperwork proving you are still resident in NZ) but your husbands need for residency to allow him to stay in Schengen longer than 3 months might cause problems. Perhaps if it is 100% in your name it will be ok...

The advertised prices between taxed and untaxed do not seem to differ greatly and I'm not sure if you can save on the purchase price the equivalent to the tax rate. So maybe if you are planning a long stay it is better to buy taxed and keep it EU flagged.

Have you looked at if Dutch residency is possible?
__________________
S/Y Jessabbé http://www.jessabbe.com/
hoppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2016, 03:40   #57
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Boat: TBA
Posts: 269
Re: Buying a boat in the Med

Hi All,

Just to clarify a few things
if i am an Australian Resident with both Malta an Australian passports i can stay in the EU indefinitely. is this correct

if my boat is not Vat tax paid i will only have to sail out of EU for 1 day every 18 mth's, also my using my malta passport i will not incur Vat because i'm an Australian which usually lives in Aus this is also correct is it not.

The boat is to be Australian Registered

I ask this question as i'm not entirely sure
__________________
aclmck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2016, 04:23   #58
Registered User
 
hoppy's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia and the boat is in Pittwater
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 40
Posts: 2,729
Re: Buying a boat in the Med

Quote:
Originally Posted by aclmck View Post
Hi All,

Just to clarify a few things
if i am an Australian Resident with both Malta an Australian passports i can stay in the EU indefinitely. is this correct

if my boat is not Vat tax paid i will only have to sail out of EU for 1 day every 18 mth's, also my using my malta passport i will not incur Vat because i'm an Australian which usually lives in Aus this is also correct is it not.

The boat is to be Australian Registered

I ask this question as i'm not entirely sure
That's the way it is supposed to work and it seems to work that way (based on what people have said) but sometimes the Greeks like to make up their own rules. I would suggest that you keep on board some recent documents to help support that you are resident in Aus. Bank statements, rates bill, phone bills etc incase you encounter a difficult official.
__________________
S/Y Jessabbé http://www.jessabbe.com/
hoppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2016, 07:01   #59
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: UK winter, Greece summer
Boat: Charter vessels!
Posts: 282
Re: Buying a boat in the Med

Quote:
Originally Posted by robbinsfamily View Post
Hi Jim, your info and website is great thanks, though I'm still a bit overwhelmed with the info. I have a Kiwi Passport and a dutch passport, my husband has a kiwi only, our three kids have both kiwi and dutch. We were planning to buy a boat in greece early 2017 and cruise and live in europe for the next few years, would you recommend us buying a boat with or without vat paid, where should we register it? (NZ?) What is the best option to make the most of having both kiwi and EU passports? Also how does my husband get residency? Appreciate any clarification you can give as reading all these threads are quite confusing when it doesn't apply directly to our situation! Also where is best to buy the boat?
Sorry about the slow reply. work interfered with hobby . . .

Schengen law about people:

1. non-EU passport holders must have "right or residence" through some form of visa to stay longer than 90 days in any 180 within the region.
2. An exception is that some EU countries will offer extended "visitor visas" allowing up to 1 year within that country, without right of residence. Extended visitor visas usually have to be arranged before arrival.
3. New Zealand (and other) countries have extended visitor arrangements with various EU countries (I haven't got a list)
4. Passports plus visas prove/disprove right of residence

EU Directives about boats:

1. A boat is a means of transport.
2. If you enter on a passport which gives you right of residence in the EU, then any means of transport you use within the EU must be VAT paid.
3. It doesn't make any difference where the boat is registered, except boats registered outside the EU will have their papers checked more often. What matters is whether the boat is VAT paid
4. There are varying periods of grace permitted before you pay VAT or must leave - 8? days in UK, 30 days in Greece
5. Your only escape from VAT is to enter on a passport which does not give you right of residence. The boat may stay for18 months. You can only use it 90 days out of every 180.

In Practice

1. Some officials are hazy about the details above
2. If you enter Schengen on a VAT paid boat, whatever its registration, life is simple. Use right of residence passports if you've got them, or can get them.
3. If VAT is not paid, using right of residence passports or visas is illegal import. If you're caught, expect to pay VAT plus a fine.

Note that above I've referred to entering Schengen. At that stage, you declare your status by offering a passport. If you leave on a different passport, fines for illegal entry can be, and are, enforced.

Sound as though hubby had better look into French extended stay visitor visas, and maybe follow that with another extended stay visitor visa for another country! Or apply for Dutch citizenship?
JimB
__________________
jckb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2016, 10:29   #60
Registered User
 
Prairie Chicken's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Canada or Spain
Boat: Jeanneau SO 43 DS
Posts: 1,054
Images: 1
Re: Buying a boat in the Med

Good summary Jim!
__________________

__________________
Prairie Chicken
><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>¸.
`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`· ...¸><((((º>
Prairie Chicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
buying

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Trade: Monohull - Med for No. Amer / No. Amer for Med Chuteman Classifieds Archive 0 21-06-2012 15:15
Buying a Boat in the Med Questions??? Flight Risk General Sailing Forum 0 13-05-2012 09:23
Buying Decent, but Cheap Boat in Med dniello Europe & Mediterranean 21 09-05-2011 09:11
Buying in the Med 23windowz Dollars & Cents 10 04-01-2011 02:58
BUYING A BOAT IN THE MED. KIWI Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 7 06-07-2008 08:05


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:19.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.