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Old 06-05-2009, 15:27   #76
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Belgium?

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Originally Posted by GoahAbaddi View Post
Hello all,
We will take a train on Monday to the closest Belgium consulate. Colette and Jean Christoff
Sounds like these unfortunate sailors are from Belgium. I do not profess to know much about EU or Spanish law. Belgium is a member of the EU. Perhaps that could be a mitigating factor.

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Old 06-05-2009, 18:06   #77
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Belgium is a member of the EU. Perhaps that could be a mitigating factor.
Late commers to this thread would be wise to follow it from the beginning. It's not that long but there is a lot of information if you follow the trail. This post is now more than a month and a half old. Ou heros are lkacking an update. They posted it all over the Internet orginially. Spain has it's issues and it's advantages. Friends that were there are now happy in Portugal. To put it in perspective Florida or Maryland in the US wouldn't be that easy either.
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Old 06-05-2009, 20:39   #78
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Originally Posted by Pblais View Post
To put it in perspective Florida or Maryland in the US wouldn't be that easy either.
Maybe a little intenet/cruising business could be had by selling "recipts" from Georgia or Mississippi?
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Old 23-05-2009, 07:42   #79
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For those who are thinking of cruising in Europe, there are some very misleading posts in this thread. To summarise the rules:

1. Anyone who spends more than 183 days a year in a EU country is regarded as tax resident in that country. In some countries (Spain) this is a calendar year. In others, it's a tax year (Apr 5 is a favourite). In yet others, it's 183 days in any 365. This is a matter of fact. The authorities are entitled to assume you have been resident if you can not demonstrate otherwise.

2. If you are tax resident in an EU country, all your means of transport in that country (cars, caravans, motorcycles, aeroplanes) must be registered locally. There is provision to include yachts and motor boats in that list, but many EU countries don't. Spain does. Tax residency can also arise if you have a business in that country - but that is outside the scope of this note.

3. If any vehicle is registered in any country, it (and its drivers) must meet local regulations. These include driving licences, certificates of competence, lists of equipment to be carried and so on. Notoriously, in Spain, any vehicle with a motor is also assessed on its potential for pollution, and part of the registration process is payment of a one-off pollution tax (this tax the thread has been all about). Spaniards pay it. This tax is nothing to do with VAT - which also has to be proved paid.

4. Any non-EU visitor to an EU country must note the duration of stay stamped in their passport - either with a visa, or as an entry stamp. This will typically cover you for 90 days, before which the visa must be extended (not always easy) or you must leave the country and re-enter later. Some countries define how long you must leave before re-entering; others do not permit more than two visas a year. Longer stay visas may be applied for. 'Schengen' visas may be applied for, but this is outside the scope of this note.

Those are the facts. They have been published by the UK Cruising Association for over a decade, being updated when changes occur. The original poster was plainly un-aware of these rules.

For all those who suggested (in several nuanced ways) that bribery may dig you out of trouble, don't even think of it. There may be one or two corruptible officials around, but in Europe they are as rare as hen's teeth. Attempts are likely to lead you into far worse trouble.

Moral?

Don't spend more than 183 days in any 356 in one country unless you're prepared to go native and obey all their rules.

Don't overstay your visa/entry stamp limitations unless you're prepared to pay a big fine.

And, Europeans, if you're thinking of going to the US in a boat, just wait to see the hoops you have to jump through before travel! Including long sessions on 0900 telephone numbers arranging trivial interviews - and that's just for a personal visa! Spain is a doddle of freedom by comparison - even for US visitors.

JimB.

Google 'jimb' to see my website, which tells you far more about cruising in Europe. And Google 'cruising association' to see what they offer.
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Old 23-05-2009, 07:54   #80
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Thanks for the excellent (clear, complete, yet concise) summary, Jim.
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Old 26-05-2009, 02:03   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caribsailors View Post
It's not just the EU, I was robbed by the Turks & Caicos Gov for import duty even after I asked for an exemption as stated in British law.

The gov is there is now dissolved and back under British rule. Hey maybe I can get a refund!

So be aware of where you cruise.

I know I am now.


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Well, that's not exactly right, although I can understand your frustration. The government here is not back under British rule just yet. The government got reorganized, with Mike Misick stepping down and Galmo Williams becomeing the new Chief Minister and cleaning house. This was mostly an effort to show the Brits that the TCI locals could govern themselves without British intervention.

The recommendations of the Inquiry people are still that the Govenor take over running the place until the local political parties can organize the next election in a couple of years. It looks likely that this will happen, but it had not happened as of the time of your post.

Being expat Americans living here full time as residents, we are paying pretty close attention to all this.
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Old 26-05-2009, 03:55   #82
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... The government here is not back under British rule just yet. The government got reorganized, with Mike Misick stepping down and Galmo Williams becomeing the new Chief Minister and cleaning house. This was mostly an effort to show the Brits that the TCI locals could govern themselves without British intervention...
Britain rejects request to not suspend TCI Constitution

"The British Government has made it abundantly clear to the Turks and Caicos Islands Government that parts of this country’s Constitution definitely will be suspended when the final report* from Commissioner of Inquiry Sir Robin Auld is released ...

* [if the final report does not significantly alter our assessment of the situation]
... When parts of the Constitution are suspended there will be no more Premier, Ministers of Government or Members of Parliament, and the House of Assembly will not be meeting for at least two years and the Governor will be chiefly responsible for running the Turks and Caicos Islands along with a group of specially-selected advisors ...

Goto ➥ TCI SUN Newspaper

See also post #64
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Old 26-05-2009, 05:35   #83
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Yes, that is what has been recommended.

My point was that it has not yet happened. Carbsailors statement that the "The gov there is now dissolved and back under British rule." is not true. The government here has NOT been dissolved and it is NOT back under British Rule.

Not yet.

I think some of this is supposed to happen as soon as this week, but it's still not definite. First the final report, then the decision. Just last week the Govenor was talking about that.

People here have mixed feelings about it. Most of them are tired of the blatant corruption of the previous government here (Misicks) and welcome the stability of the Brits.

But they also resent having a representative of the Crown (the Govenor) who has only been here a few months, taking power over everything.

At least with the corrupt government you could get things done. With the Brits in charge, nothing will move forward.
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Old 02-06-2009, 20:27   #84
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4. Any non-EU visitor to an EU country must note the duration of stay stamped in their passport - either with a visa, or as an entry stamp. This will typically cover you for 90 days, before which the visa must be extended (not always easy) or you must leave the country and re-enter later. Some countries define how long you must leave before re-entering; others do not permit more than two visas a year. Longer stay visas may be applied for. 'Schengen' visas may be applied for, but this is outside the scope of this note.
The rest of the post is spot on. however this isnt

The Schengen area comprises most of mainland EU, excluding the UK and Ireland. Countries within this area have abolished border controls ( in general), therefor their entry border is the Schengen border. non-EU nationals entering the Schengen area has 90 days in 180 in which to visit any or all Schengen countries. You must leave for 3 months if you use up the whole 90 days. Some countries are allowed Schengen Visa Wavier schemes ( ie the USA) which means they dont have to formally apply for a tourist visa ( a Schengen visa) in advance, and merely turn up at a Schengen country and get a visa applied by a passport stamp. But the 90 day rule applies.

There is no normal extension to a Schengen visa ( wavier or not). Longer stay visas are dealt with under national laws and are generally work or study visas ( which all the hassale that applies). Note that teh UK & ireland will give upto 6 months to US citizens, though in practice unless you can justify it you will be given 90 days. Stays in teh UK and Ireland do not count as part of the Schengen 90 days limit. Note that national long stay visas due not give the holder any right to more then Schengen rules in countries other then the one where the long stay visas applies


BTW as a little background to the matriculation tax issues. This tax has been on the books for some time but as certain authorities ( especially Valencia) have suffered in recent years falling taxes, they have turned to new sources and boats are one of them. Equally Spain has been reducing its wealth and capital gains taxes to be more inline with teh rest of the EU and hence local authorities have turned to other areas for funds. It is know being applied in the Canary island as well to my knowledge

Most EU countries do not have taxes on boats per say , though many have light duties and so forth, which become payable on tax residency ( france for example). Its important for english speaking uses to avoid basing too much of their information on UK ( or Ireland for that matter) as these countries typically have no restrictions or taxes on private vessels.( including not requiring registration or competency certs)
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Old 03-06-2009, 04:14   #85
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Greetings and welcome aboard goboatingnow.
Thanks for the informative contribution.
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Old 04-06-2009, 13:22   #86
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i just found this link
i think it can be very useful to those preparing a travelin spain
SPANISH LAWS FOR BOATS
hope it helps
best of luck
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Old 05-06-2009, 15:29   #87
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Be aware this information is faulty

firstly spainish matriculation tax is 12% not 16% and is calulated on the financial value of the asset, which can be much lower then the re-sale ( though perhaps not in the current climate)

Note that teh informaion in VAT is erroroneous, EU customs will not be that interested in teh VAT status if the vessel is coming from another EU country. Thats becuase VAT will that countries issue. The fact that its in the EU means that EU country has accepted the import as a given. Boats TORing in from outside the EU will have generally not have to pay VAT. despite what that website says whether VAT has been paid on the transastions involving a boat is actually very difficult to prove especially on second hand boats. There is no such thing as a VAT paid certificate or anything official like that ( the reasons for this are to do with VAT law)

Secondly this web site primarily talk about the effect on becoming a tax resident. If you intend to remain in say spain past the 182 days in a calandar year, then you need to do some preplanning and to bring your posessions in on a EU TOR ( transfer of residence). The OP should have been aware of this and unfortunately he has been fairly and squarely caught. ANy EU citizen ( or other citizen) anyway around the world must make themselves aware of long stay implications. NOTE that only spain has this type of import tax on a boat. ( other EU countries have light dues and harbour fees etc)

The main thing is to not to be inadvertantly caught being a tax resident and the ability to negoiate a TOR is removed. If your boat is going to be in spain for more then the 182 days then you need to be able to document that you were not, either by passport stamps, travel documents etc.

All this stems from the fact that Spain especially Valencia is full of non-spainish people living and not declaring themselves tax resident and the authorities are getting fed up of it, especially since capital taxes were reduced. Teh EU disproves of import taxes and the matric tax is expected to go in time , but no doubt the spainish will invent some new ones.
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Old 06-06-2009, 00:54   #88
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Thanks for your clarifications about Schengen visas. I was trying to keep my note short!

And your comments about VAT are exactly right.

I note that the Spanish 'matriculation' (registration) tax tables seemed to apply to engine size, rather than boat value. This change came about when the rules were re-written as a 'pollution' tax last year. But my Spanish isn't very good, so perhaps I mis-understood that bit. So the question is, 12% of what?

I know it's still a big number . . . around 10 - 15% of a sail boat's value. But maybe a lot more for a motor boat with two big engines?

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Old 06-06-2009, 09:13   #89
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Any news from the OP on how this turned out?
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Old 07-06-2009, 06:05   #90
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The pollution tax thing , is an attempt by the spainish to get around the EU commisions diffiuculties with an import tax ( which is EU illegal). We did teh same thing in Ireland with car taxes, changed them to a registration tax as opposed to a import tax.

just like death , they'll always be with us
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