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Old 30-03-2009, 19:19   #16
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How long does the boat have to be out of Spain before the "counter" resets to zero? Sound like a legal loophole, but what if you sailed outside their boundaries for 1 day then came back to spain? However I greatly doubt it would be 1 day, probably another 6 months or so.
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Old 30-03-2009, 19:47   #17
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Hmm. Sounds typical of "ignorance is no excuse". I'm not ready to take our boat to the EU, but I KNOW FOR SURE that there's a time period that you can stay without having to pay a significant tax. I'm thinking it's like 6 months?

Anyway, each country has rules, and it is up to YOU to make sure you abide by them. As simple as that...
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Old 30-03-2009, 20:01   #18
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I kind of answered my own question. The maximum number of days you can reside in Spain WITHOUT being considered a Spanish resident is 183 days. The "counter" resets to zero on the 1st of January each year, permitting another 183 days of residency. So it would be possible to have a full consecutive year in residency providing it straddled a new year, 183 days each side! In other words if you arrived in Spain on July 02, 2008 that is exactly 183 days. The counter resets on Jan 1 and then you can go up to July 03, 2009 (exactly another 183 days).

So it's really a question of when you entered Spain. Was it before or after July 02, 2008?


Source: The Spanish boat tax system explained.

Alex Chumillas is a Spanish tax expert who specialises in nautical procedures and is officially licensed to deal with the different Spanish Administrations.

Contact Details:
Alex Chumillas Amat
Economista - Gestor Administrativo
C/ Villarroel, 212, 1º 2ª
08036 Barcelona

Teléfono: +34 934442137
Móbil : +34 667663521
Fax : +34 940469418
e_mail : aamat@economistes.com
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Old 31-03-2009, 04:53   #19
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I thought I could edit my posts.
If any of your own posts require editing after the window closes please contact any staff member and any of us will do so. You need to be clear about the exact wording that you want changed. If you want the post removed we can do that too.

If you want someone Else's post changed / removed you can report posts by clicking the triangle icon in the lower left corner and post in private you think it is inappropriate or requires editing and we can deal with those posts too.

I changed your date error for you and removed the post saying your post was in error. This way we don't create more confusion.
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Old 31-03-2009, 06:08   #20
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it's the same if you move to another EU member state and bring your vehicle and live there for more then 6 months. i know this since i lived & worked in many EU member states throughout my life. i also lived & worked in leuven / belgium for 8 months and paid my tax there.

if i brought my yacht and moored it in zeebrugge for over 1 year and lived on it wondering if they told me oh you nice dutch man you don't have to pay any tax and register your vessel here...

European Commission - Your Europe - Citizens - Your car

but i do feel sorry for them but again you need to know the laws.

their log book will be vital if they can prove the time they spend in spain. bear in mind they lived on the vessel so you are not a tourist any more after 1 year staying in the same country.

good luck
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Old 31-03-2009, 07:43   #21
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Originally Posted by Vida Nova View Post
The maximum number of days you can reside in Spain WITHOUT being considered a Spanish resident is 183 days. The "counter" resets to zero on the 1st of January each year, permitting another 183 days of residency.
Wow, that is strange. I don't know a thing about it but I noticed that in the UK the time is 183 days in any 12 month period. No clock resetting there unless you leave the country for at least 6 months every year.
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Old 31-03-2009, 08:01   #22
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Does it make any difference if your boat is Federally documented as opposed to state registered?

Good luck. Anything I'd say would just be a rant.
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Old 31-03-2009, 08:29   #23
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Hi Colette and Jean.
I lived on our boat in Spain years ago, before they joined the EEC, and I have to say, O4 Marine and Palagic’s advice is the best, even if it might be the most difficult to actually swallow.
[ethnic slur deleted] officials are a funny bunch who easily take offence at what they perceive to be personal affronts and insults to their country. The way to deal with it is as calmly as you can muster, when the morons come on board, offer them tea and refreshments, and tell them how sorry you are, and how broke you are, being only retired cruising people, etc. Some tears from the wife will help.
They are normally receptive to the underdog, if they think you are like them. So try to give them a reason to feel the authorities (not the actual official personally, who you are talking to at the time), are being a bit overbearing on honest ordinary folks like you, who only have the boat as a house.
Anything can happen. One day the port Captain might tell you you can sail, and all is forgiven.
The local lawyer might help, especially if he has a boat in the marina, but try to keep it as much out of the “official” area as possible. The higher you go the more entrenched the situation can become and if you've actually broken the law, you need to keep it local if possible.

You might even get an indication a bribe will sort it – and it might - but be careful, this can be a denouncing offense.
If you don't speak fluent Spanish, try to find someone who does who can simply act as interpreter. It helps to hear the way they say things, not just what they say.

Try to stay calm and collected and don’t insult them in even the slightest way, (within earshot anyway), or to any other Spaniard who appears to have a sympathetic ear. Pity you don’t have any small kids on board. They have a marked effect on Spaniards.
These things have a habit of sorting themselves out and I hope they do in your case.The object is to win, and get the hell out of the place with your boat and as little payment as possible.
By the way, it happens all over the place. Here in Orlando, Florida, an Englishman overstayed his visa and was under threat of deportation. So he went straight to the newspapers with his sob-story of overbearing authority, which made it so the authorities had to follow the letter of the law, and they deported him. It didn't help him one bit.
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Old 31-03-2009, 08:42   #24
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Having sailed in Spain I might be able to shed some light;
Having a great deal of sympathy for your situation I can only offer this. spain had very strict residency requirements, just as most other countries do, including all of the EU. Being an EU citizen entitles you to domicile anywhere in the EU you choose, it does not, however relieve you of the responsibility to register with the relevant authorites and apply for residency if you are staying for longer than 183 days. This is required across all the EU. Spain has a real problem with people importing their boats into Spain and trying not to pay importation fees. IF you have had your vessel for more than one year you might be able to import your vessel as a personal possesion, and not pay tax on it. Technically this is an EU wide provision, but may not be recognized by Spain. You should be able to prove that you paid VAT on the vessel at the time you purchased her. If you did not pay VAT- I presume in Belgium, then you have a real problem. By the by, the US authorities are just as strict, a foreign registered vessel has one year on their cruising permit, after which tax needs to be paid. Ignorance of these laws is no excuse, it is up to the vessels owners to know and understand the requirements and regulations of the countries they wish to sail in. IT may be very difficault, but having lived in Spain I can tell you that the Garda Nacional is unlikely to be lenient, and you best bet is to use a negociator and see if you can at least reduce the fees. The other way to go about this is to establish residency in Spain, and see if there is a grace period in which to pay the fees, I cannot recall if there is one. If the vessel has left Spanish waters for even a day, and you can prove it, then the 183 days begins again.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
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Old 31-03-2009, 10:17   #25
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I'm not sure about leaving for 1 day resets the counter. That would be a legal loophole and just too easy in my opinion. I believe it's the total cumulative number of days since Jan 1 that matters. well, so it say's on the link I have provided above: "it's the accumulative time spent in Spain and the police can easily calculate how long any boat has been inside the country."

However that can play in your favor. If you went back to Belgium to visit the family for 1-2 months during Christmas then that is time NOT spent in Spain which moves back your max July 02, 2008 entrance date.

I'm a little lost as to how their Taxation Scheme works. Will they charge you only for an importation tax based on the value of the boat? How much % and $ are they asking for?

I really hope they check back into this forum and let us know how things are going.

Paul, thanks for taking care of my post for me. Very appreciated.
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Old 31-03-2009, 10:35   #26
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I think the harbor master will be helpful in pointing you in the direction of the "guy" that will determine the valve of your boat.
This will be the basis for the amount of money owed.
The lower the value, obviously the better for you.
I see you paying at the end of the day...sorry mate!
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Old 31-03-2009, 10:41   #27
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Ok, so this guy is going to all of the sites and making the same single post about this? I have yet to see him post an answer to any suggestions.
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Old 31-03-2009, 10:55   #28
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Research?
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Old 31-03-2009, 11:26   #29
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Panicked? Looks like his post/situation is legitimate though.
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Old 31-03-2009, 12:22   #30
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Ok, so this guy is going to all of the sites and making the same single post about this? I have yet to see him post an answer to any suggestions.
What other sites?
only reason I ask is because I'm still in college but have always wanted to cruise and am looking for more forums to read while killing time at my internship. This forum is really great btw.
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