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Old 14-10-2016, 10:06   #61
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Re: A day or two in Gib ... Where to stay, what to do?

Boatman61-Thank you for the revelatory (to me) information that most cruisers when arriving into the EU from a non-EU VAT country clear in via marinas and don't actually deal face to face with the "immigration & customs" officials of that country! I rarely use marinas.

Weavis-Seriously, I got/get it that people haven't had any issues going to Gib and returning to Spain or Italy. I said so in my second post on this thread.

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Originally Posted by ccannan View Post
I can understand why Spanish authorities accept Gib as being outside the EU as it is literally a thorn in their side.
The bold is my emphasis.

And I reaffirmed my understanding in my sixth post after it seemed like people might have overlooked my acknowledgement of understanding in my second post.

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I see that Gib seems to suffice for Spanish officials and possibly Italian too. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I am simply trying to get the story straight.
The bold is my emphasis.

I got it! and I get it!

Do you get that also from my first post I also asked a more nuanced (you say pedantic to the nth degree) question?

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Originally Posted by ccannan View Post
Does anyone have firsthand knowledge about this? Meaning they have had EU officials from an EU country ask about the vessel's VAT status, and length of time in the EU, and being satisfied with the boat being in Gib, as outside of the EU?
As Boatman61 has just posted my guess is that most (not all) people clearing into EU countries (specifically Spain) have either employed agents or dealt with marinas that enter information into a computer or fax a form to the relevant officials for computer entry. I rarely use marinas, and in Spain have only ever dealt with Spanish "immigration" (Cuerpo Nacional de Polica Fronteras), and despite my inquires have never had to deal with Spanish "customs" officials . I have been asking if anyone else on CF has ever dealt with Spanish "customs" officials face to face, not via a marina, or via an employed agent. Really, it isn't that pedantic!

Again, I got it and get it that most people that clear into Spain from non-EU VAT countries (like Gib, USA, Canada, Morocco, etc...) clear in via marinas, and the information provided apparently satisfies Spanish "customs" officials.

I can add some more advice about how to handle "immigration & customs" officials (if you actually ever meet interact with them); speak their language, and ask about a where they like to dine when dining out for either lunch or dinner. It is a great ice breaker, and usually makes the process less painful. The added benefit is getting great dining recommendations from working class locals.
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Old 14-10-2016, 10:25   #62
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Re: A day or two in Gib ... Where to stay, what to do?

So.
Lets move on with the thread and bring back the love that is so sadly missing.

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Old 14-10-2016, 11:19   #63
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pirate Re: A day or two in Gib ... Where to stay, what to do?

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Originally Posted by weavis View Post
So.
Lets move on with the thread and bring back the love that is so sadly missing.

Plenty of 'love' here mate..

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Old 19-10-2016, 07:30   #64
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Re: A day or two in Gib ... Where to stay, what to do?

Ccanan, we have been boarded three times by the Aduanas. In all cases they were pleasant & there was no problem. Document checks, and most interested in the time we persons had been in country/EU. They did not query VAT. At least one of their crew spoke passable English.


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Old 20-10-2016, 11:26   #65
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Re: A day or two in Gib ... Where to stay, what to do?

Prairie Chicken-Thanks for sharing your experiences in your post.

I am/was actually looking for info about people's experience with Spanish "customs" officials when clearing into Spain from a non-EU VAT country (Morocco, Gib, USA, Canada, etc...). According to Boatman61, most crusiers clear into to Spain via marinas. Apparently, marina staff enter info into a government database or fax the info to the appropriate authorities. I rarely use marinas and never have used them to clear into Spain. Instead, I have cleared in by going to the appropriate offices. For immigration in Spain, it is the Cuerpo Nacional de Policia (CNP) Fronteras. I have never had to speak to or deal with Spanish "customs" officials despite asking if I needed to, and where their offices are located.

Again, thanks for sharing your experiences.
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Old 20-10-2016, 11:46   #66
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Re: A day or two in Gib ... Where to stay, what to do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairie Chicken View Post
[QUOTE

Again, does anyone on CF have firsthand knowledge about using Gib as a VAT clock reset? Meaning they have had EU officials from an EU country ask about the vessel's VAT status, and length of time in the EU, and being satisfied with the boat being in Gib, as outside of the EU?
I think you are being optimistic in thinking officials would have the same interpretations consistently. That is the way it is supposed to work but I know from my own experience it doesn't happen that way. I wish it was so!


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EXACTLY
This has been my experience in two+ years cruising in the EU. Everyone thinks they know the rules and every office is doing the same procedure, but in fact, it's EXACTLY the opposite. There is no consistency from office to office, let alone country to country.

The Italians accept it because they want you back in their marinas asap.

So, what works in Spain or Italy, may not work in the north of France or the Netherlands.

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Old 20-10-2016, 12:06   #67
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Re: A day or two in Gib ... Where to stay, what to do?

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Originally Posted by Dauntlessny View Post
I think you are being optimistic in thinking officials would have the same interpretations consistently. That is the way it is supposed to work but I know from my own experience it doesn't happen that way. I wish it was so!


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EXACTLY
This has been my experience in two+ years cruising in the EU. Everyone thinks they know the rules and every office is doing the same procedure, but in fact, it's EXACTLY the opposite. There is no consistency from office to office, let alone country to country.

"The Italians accept it because they want you back in their marinas asap.

So, what works in Spain or Italy, may not work in the north of France or the Netherlands.

Richard on Dauntless in Spain"


Add Croatia, Gibraltar and Montenegro to the "easy list."
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Old 20-11-2016, 07:58   #68
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Re: A day or two in Gib ... Where to stay, what to do?

Time for an update on the Aduanas debate.

Network had advised our skipper to clear back into Spain once he had returned to Palma; no need to stop at the first available port of call. They would go with him to the Aduanas to help clear in & ensure he obtained the necessary paperwork for VAT purposes.

Our first Spanish port after clearing out of Gib was Fuerngirola. This was the port where, after producing the usual paperwork at the office to register, the policia attended the boat & checked all our passports.

When our skipper went with the Network rep to clear back into Spain at the Palma Aduanas he was less than impressed that the Aduanas had moved office & Network were unaware of it. Then the Aduanas required further documentation confirming the document making the skipper an agent to represent the boat was legitimate. (The boat is owned by an incorporated company & the document was signed by the owners of the company but without confirmation they were in fact officers of the company.) This additional notorized documentation had to be received & then both it & the authorization as agent translated into Spanish.

Most recently, the Aduanas are criticizing the skipper for failing to clear into Spain at Fuerngirola, and have asked for a copy of the ships log. The boat has still not been cleared into Spain.

This is all a perfect example of trying to do the right thing, and following the best available professional advice, and still being at odds with the officials.
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Old 20-11-2016, 08:41   #69
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Re: A day or two in Gib ... Where to stay, what to do?

Italy, Montenegro and Croatia are so easy. Spain was also easy, sorry to hear you're having trouble, maybe just Palma? Cartegena was a cinch for us with the officials repeatedly coming out to us on the boat.
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Old 20-11-2016, 08:47   #70
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pirate Re: A day or two in Gib ... Where to stay, what to do?

Weird..!!!
I've never cleared in any other way than on entering a marina and dealing with all aspects in their office for years in the Med..
Even in Kusadasi, Turkey I did it all in the marina.. entered, berthed, took all doc's to office, filled in all the forms and then went back later to collect the passports which had been stamped.. same with clearing out.
Only time I've dealt with Aduana's anywhere in the Med is random stop and checks near smuggling routes/hotspots since at least 2000..
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Old 22-11-2016, 11:40   #71
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Re: A day or two in Gib ... Where to stay, what to do?

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When our skipper went with the Network rep to clear back into Spain at the Palma Aduanas he was less than impressed that the Aduanas had moved office & Network were unaware of it.
Any chance you could convince your skipper to share the address (any contact information) of the "new" "Aduanas" office in Palma?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 22-11-2016, 13:38   #72
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Re: A day or two in Gib ... Where to stay, what to do?

The old office was in the Aduanas building just beside the cathedral. I believe they are now in the cruise ship terminal but will confirm next time I talk to him.
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