8 Years in the Med?

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by mcarling

Correct. Doesn't have to be London -- anywhere with its own immigration formalities outside the Schengen Area will suffice.

Exactly. Just picked London as a convenient example and because I have friends there, plus easy to get cheap flights from most of EU. If I did choose this option would probably pick wherever is cheapest to get to from my location but fun to visit for a day or so.

Originally Posted by mcarling

Technically, Monaco is not in the Schengen Area, but I would not rely on that technicality for the purpose of leaving the Schengen Area at the end of the six months following first entry. I would only use Monaco to stop the clock counting toward the 90 day limit -- and then only if I wanted to spend time in Monaco.

I have heard Gibraltar might also be a possibility? Monaco might be fun to see but not sure if it would fit in my budget, at least not as far as marina space costs.

Originally Posted by mcarling

If you're planning to stay for years at the same marina, it would be best to choose one which is not an entry point i.e. one which has no immigration officials. So, for example, one might enter at Marseille and then stay somewhere not an entry point such as Bormes Les Mimosas Marina. Then do all the Schengen departure formalities from Spain (anywhere but France). That's illegal and one might get caught, but it would be less risky that staying for years in a marina where immigration officials work and then trying to depart the Schengen Area from the same marina.

Certainly. If I accidentally was in the EU beyond my limits my idea of staying under the radar would include moving around a bit, staying out of high profile areas and departure from an appropriate location.

[mcarling]

Originally Posted by skipmac

I have heard Gibraltar might also be a possibility?

Gibraltar would work as well as anyplace and better than Monaco.

[SunDevil]

Originally Posted by skipmac

I have heard Gibraltar might also be a possibility? Monaco might be fun to see but not sure if it would fit in my budget, at least not as far as marina space costs.

Certainly. If I accidentally was in the EU beyond my limits my idea of staying under the radar would include moving around a bit, staying out of high profile areas and departure from an appropriate location.

I tried to find the passport office in Monaco and didn't succeed (not that I was really trying hard)

You 'might' be able to afford this space... I doubt I could.





Very nice place to visit though.

[mcarling]

Originally Posted by SunDevil

I tried to find the passport office in Monaco and didn't succeed (not that I was really trying hard)

It used to be possible to get a passport stamp at the Monaco police headquarters, but now only at the Mairie (on top of the hill, not far from the cathedral).

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by svBeBe

An EU citizen who wants to cruise the US for a similar length of time should be able to obtain a B2 Visa. But I don't think the US would allow 8 years to see just our single country. In the EU there are many countries.....treating visitors as if it was only 1 country.

Judy

It's in effect a federalised state not unlike the US. Certainly by the time we sorted out the euro zone, it will almost be identical.

Dave

[goboatingnow]

I agree that a foreigner cruising the US has far far more hassle then an equivalent cruising the EU. The EU has a very liberal immigration policy and generally its privacy laws prevent the type of monitoring that is required in the US.

I still am confused though at what long term visa is open to cruisers. A B2 /B1 visa is not a residence visa. What specific visa would you suggest are applicable to cruisers wishing to stay longer in a particular EU country.

Dave

[Charlie]

Here is an unusual situation. My wife is a dual citizen Canada and US. My kids and I are US citizens. We have a boat that flies a UK flag and is VAT paid that we bought in Italy. We keep it in Italy. To date we have not left Italy. Next year we are planning on going to Corsica.

I plan on checking in to Corsica. When we leave Corsica and go back to Italy will I need to get a Zarpe?

If it were a UK boat with EU members on board I don't think I would have to check in. With US Citizens I think I do. Anyone know what I should do?

[svBeBe]

It would make sense to have a 6-month or even 12-month visa allowing visiting cruisers to stay longer in either a particular EU country or a combination of all the EU countries. Australia issues 12-month visas to cruisers; very easy to obtain.

As for the USA, Wikipedia gives this info on the B visas:
"The cost of a B visa consists of the application fee, which all applicants must pay (currently 160 USD[2]), and the issuance fee, which varies by nation, based on a fee reciprocity table.[3]
Validity period and duration of stay

As with other non-immigrant U.S. visas, a B1/B2 visa has a validity period (from 1 to 10 years), allows for either one or multiple entries into the U.S, and elicits a period of stay (3–6 months) recorded by the Customs and Border Protection officer at the port of entry on the individual's form I-94.[4]"

So it appears that Europeans can obtain long stay visas to visit the USA for 8 years. But the Schengen countries have no such provision.

Judy

[mcarling]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

What specific visa would you suggest are applicable to cruisers wishing to stay longer in a particular EU country.

There are many options, but there is no one-size-fits-all solution. I cannot make a specific recommendation without asking about half an hour's questions. Everyone's situation is different.

Originally Posted by svBeBe

As for the USA, Wikipedia gives this info on the B visas:
"The cost of a B visa consists of the application fee, which all applicants must pay (currently 160 USD[2]), and the issuance fee, which varies by nation, based on a fee reciprocity table.[3]
Validity period and duration of stay

As with other non-immigrant U.S. visas, a B1/B2 visa has a validity period (from 1 to 10 years), allows for either one or multiple entries into the U.S, and elicits a period of stay (3–6 months) recorded by the Customs and Border Protection officer at the port of entry on the individual's form I-94.[4]"

So it appears that Europeans can obtain long stay visas to visit the USA for 8 years.

Do you think a 10-year B2 visa means one can enter the US for 10 years? It does not. Entry would be granted for up to six months, and possibly extended for up to another six months. Anyone who extends an entry is not going to be allowed back in anytime soon after -- except maybe celebrities or people with high-level connections at the State Department.

Originally Posted by svBeBe

But the Schengen countries have no such provision.

Many Schengen Area member states have residence permits that are much easier to obtain that long-term US visas. Also, US enforcement of entry/exit rules against EU citizens is fiercely strict, while EU enforcement of entry/exit rules against US citizens is usually quite relaxed.

[Buena Vista]

Originally Posted by Charlie

Here is an unusual situation. My wife is a dual citizen Canada and US. My kids and I are US citizens. We have a boat that flies a UK flag and is VAT paid that we bought in Italy. We keep it in Italy. To date we have not left Italy. Next year we are planning on going to Corsica.

I plan on checking in to Corsica. When we leave Corsica and go back to Italy will I need to get a Zarpe?

If it were a UK boat with EU members on board I don't think I would have to check in. With US Citizens I think I do. Anyone know what I should do?

If you are already in Italy legally, there is no need to clear in to Corsica, if fact no matter how hard you try it's not possible.

Being a new arrival, I tried last year in both Calvi and Ajaccio (Australians arriving from Spain). Calvi simply had no customs people at the port, the port captain suggested I try the airport but nobody there unless a flight is landing. Ajaccio looked more promising, a big fully staffed terminal, but to cut a long story short I tried customs, frontier police and port captain, the response was the same from everyone when I asked to clear in .... Why??

Once you are in the EU, there is no need to clear between EU countries, except Greece.

I have no idea what a "Zarpe" is.

[svBeBe]

Originally Posted by Buena Vista

snipped.......

I have no idea what a "Zarpe" is.

Many Spanish speaking countries refer to outbound clearance as Zarpe. It simply means the clearance papers from your previous port.

Judy

[jckb]

Fascinating thread.

Yes, back to the OP. It is possible for a non-EU crew and boat to legally spend 8 interesting years cruising the Med. But this will require a good knowledge of the rules affecting people - the crew - and the separate rules affecting the boat. It require judicious lengths of stay within Schengen, EU, and non-EU countries. The difficulties mainly arise ensuring people don't spend too much time in the Schengen zone.

I have attempted in the past to summarise all these regulations and how they are applied on my web site at Going Foreign | JimB Sail - and the pages that leads to - with the past help of Dave (goboatingnow).

Mcarling has pointed out some twists and turns I wasn't aware of. I'd very much appreciate it if you could check the link above for errors or ambiguities!

Originally Posted by Buena Vista

Once you are in the EU, there is no need to clear between EU countries, except Greece.

Hmm. I don't think that's correct, but I might have mis-understood you.

It's very important to keep clear about the difference between boat permissions (goods/customs/import/VAT/duty/EU) and people permissions (immigration/visas/residence permits/passports/tax residence).

People. Once in the Schengen zone, there's no need to report to immigration as you travel from one to another Schengen country by "recognised means of transport" (airlines, ferries, cars through border crossings). However, boats often leave territorial waters when traveling from place to place, so, on arrival in a port by a private boat, immigration has the right to check passports or require a report. Greece, unusually, does not always require non-EU crew to check in through immigration if they arrive by boat. Whilst on the boat, they have permission to remain in residence on the boat as crew - and not be resident in Greece! Technically, that means you don't go ashore. Practically, that limitation is not policed - unless you try to leave Greece by a "recognised means of transport", when you'll be fined for illegally entering the country if you hadn't checked in. So, one means of escaping the Schengen limit!

Boats. Yes, all boats entering Greece must be presented to the port police on entering to obtain a Greek cruising document (though EU boats under 10m don't have to carry this Greek document). This is because Greece still monitors (or attempts to monitor) all boat movements within its waters. This is not a customs matter; this is a Coast Guard matter.

JimB

[hellosailor]

Thinking of how times have changed and newfangled concepts like the EU and Schengen and Greece being considered in Europe now [sic] I think if Mark Twain had heard that news, he would have just asked if the British had taken the whole country home, not being content with looting just the friezes off the Parthenon.

I suppose not having to lose percents every time you change monopoly money at the border is some compensation, but can't see how anyplace larger than the Grand Duchy of Fenwick would have imagined that 90 days was a suitable number.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

I suppose not having to lose percents every time you change monopoly money at the border is some compensation, but can't see how anyplace larger than the Grand Duchy of Fenwick would have imagined that 90 days was a suitable number.

LMAO... Sounds like the good ole US of A... you should feel right at home...

[mcarling]

Originally Posted by jckb

Mcarling has pointed out some twists and turns I wasn't aware of. I'd very much appreciate it if you could check the link above for errors or ambiguities!

I just had a quick look at your site. Two comments:
1. You could more clearly distinguish information about passport control from information about customs.
2. You count (but do not enumerate) 22 EU countries in the Schengen Area and UK, Ireland, plus five other EU countries not in the Schengen Area. That adds up to 29, but there are only 27 EU member states (will be 28 from 1 July 2013).