Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-12-2012, 01:30   #106
LJH
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Nova Scotia
Boat: Wauquiez Centurion 42
Posts: 274
Re: 8 Years in the Med ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Yes Portugal is one of the few countries that can check everything and its got worse in recent years. I just think god I don't have to check in and out their anymore.

Did he actually check all the entrance exit stamps or just refer to Portugals ones.
Yes our first entry was in June and we were leaving in November. We had flown back to Canada for a bit in the summer. It was day 87 in the Schengen area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I don't believe there is a specific tourist visa anymore. It has been supplanted by the Schengen visa. There is a temporary residence permit all right. nZ citizens have alternative bilateral arrangements.

Ps Lagos and Portimao are ok , villamoura is a paperwork nightmare. Mind you why anyone would stay at the town marina in Portimao is beyond me. The old centre is a shadow of its former self. All rundown and lifeless. Very said Marina de portimao ( ie the new one ) is just a other Euro boat park
Portimao is not on my list of places to revisit! We'll stop in Lagos on the way by if needed.
__________________

__________________
LJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 10:07   #107
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 650
Re: 8 Years in the Med ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by svBeBe View Post
Help me to understand what you are describing. Because your description still sounds like 90-days-in and then 90-days-out to me.

My understanding is this:
If one enters Schengen for the first time on 1 July and remains within Schengen, then one must depart in 90 days, which would be 28 September. One is allowed only 90 days in any 180 day period. So one could not return for 90 days since one has already used the 90-days-in within a 180-day period. Using this example, one could re-enter 27 December and begin to repeat that cycle.

Therefore, if one enters and stays 90 days then one must leave for 90 days = 180 day period.

At the end of that 180 day period, one can then re-enter (whether called a first entry or a re-entry) and begin another 90-day period in Schengen that ends in 180 days. Again, that would be 90-days in and 90-days out in any given 180 day period, whether those 90 days in are used continuously or broken into 10-day periods (extremely unlikely for those of us traveling via sailboats).
Let's first clear up a detail. The rule is six months, not 180 days. So, if a first entry is on the 7th of a month, the period ends at midnight on the 6th of the month, six months later.

In the specific case you describe where one has a first entry and then stays 90 continuous days (departing on the 90th day), then one must stay out until the same day of the month, six months after the last first entry, which would be about 90-93 days.

I don't agree with your assumption that most people arriving in a Schengen Area country by sailboat would stay 90 continuous days in the same port. I think 10 or so days here, 10 or so days there, etc. mixed between Schengen and non-Schengen area ports is a more common occurrence.

Anyway, I hope that clears it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
I would ask whether anyone stamps "first entry in past 90 day" or whether they just stamp "entry".
There are no distinctions among the entry stamps. They all simply indicate entry and the date of entry (along with the country and means of transport). That's why the hassle of counting back to the beginning.
__________________

__________________
mcarling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 10:45   #108
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: 8 Years in the Med ??

not only is it not 90 in 180 as is so often used, its actually three months out of 6 months, ie depending on the date it might be 90 days

people might like to curl up with this

http://register.consilium.europa.eu/...15010.en06.pdf
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 11:16   #109
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 650
Re: 8 Years in the Med ??

Yes, the law says three months per six months, but when the three months are broken into shorter periods, the border guards seem always to count toward a 90 day limit. Also, the Bot case which I linked to above supersedes the Commission Recommendations.
__________________
mcarling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 12:13   #110
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: 8 Years in the Med ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
Yes, the law says three months per six months, but when the three months are broken into shorter periods, the border guards seem always to count toward a 90 day limit. Also, the Bot case which I linked to above supersedes the Commission Recommendations.
Yes an interesting on the actual visa, the space say "Days" not months

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2012, 18:45   #111
Registered User
 
svBeBe's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: from Houston, TX; currently berthed in Barcelona, headed west
Boat: Amel SM 53 - BeBe
Posts: 946
Re: 8 Years in the Med ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
Let's first clear up a detail. The rule is six months, not 180 days. So, if a first entry is on the 7th of a month, the period ends at midnight on the 6th of the month, six months later.

In the specific case you describe where one has a first entry and then stays 90 continuous days (departing on the 90th day), then one must stay out until the same day of the month, six months after the last first entry, which would be about 90-93 days.

I don't agree with your assumption that most people arriving in a Schengen Area country by sailboat would stay 90 continuous days in the same port. I think 10 or so days here, 10 or so days there, etc. mixed between Schengen and non-Schengen area ports is a more common occurrence.

Anyway, I hope that clears it up.


There are no distinctions among the entry stamps. They all simply indicate entry and the date of entry (along with the country and means of transport). That's why the hassle of counting back to the beginning.
I never said someone in a sailboat would remain in the same port 90 days. But if they are in ANY port or any combination of ports, they would be within Schengen countries for 90 days. The only way to not be in Schengen countries would be to sail down to Morocco or Tunisia or Cyprus. I seriously doubt many people would want to sail back and forth from Africa to Italy, France or Spain. Frankly, the Schengen restrictions have made sailing in the Med too stressful for me to enjoy. Once we leave Turkey, that 90-day clock will be ticking until we reach Gibraltor. Doesn't provide much opportunity to visit all the historical places in Europe.

Judy
__________________
svBeBe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2012, 19:46   #112
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,379
Re: 8 Years in the Med ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by svBeBe View Post
I never said someone in a sailboat would remain in the same port 90 days. But if they are in ANY port or any combination of ports, they would be within Schengen countries for 90 days. The only way to not be in Schengen countries would be to sail down to Morocco or Tunisia or Cyprus. I seriously doubt many people would want to sail back and forth from Africa to Italy, France or Spain. Frankly, the Schengen restrictions have made sailing in the Med too stressful for me to enjoy. Once we leave Turkey, that 90-day clock will be ticking until we reach Gibraltor. Doesn't provide much opportunity to visit all the historical places in Europe.

Judy
Starting to feel the same way. Really want to take my boat over and cruise the Med but all the concerns about Schengen and suggestions like: no one's checking, probably never have a problem, aren't keeping records, get long term visas from here and visit there under Schengen, sail back and forth to N Africa, etc just don't cut it.

I have read several blogs by US sailors that spent a couple of years in the Med but have not yet heard a solid answer for how to do it easily, safely and legally.

__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2012, 20:42   #113
Registered User
 
CarinaPDX's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Boat: 31' Cape George Cutter
Posts: 1,674
Re: 8 Years in the Med ??

Judy and skipmac- please don't get upset about this. If you want to toe the line with the law you still have great (legal) options. If you leave Turkey in the spring, spend the summer in Croatia, then head for Gibraltar by September 1, you can have an amazing summer and still be in Schengen less than 90 days. Croatia and Turkey are by far the best places to sail in the Med and both are non-Schengen. (Although Croatia will enter the EU next summer, it will not be implementing Schengen until 2015 as currently planned.) For a multi-year trip it is easy enough to winter outside Schengen, by going back to Turkey or visiting Israel (very interesting), Cyprus (a popular British hangout), Ceuta, or Gibraltar. In the past Tunisia has been a popular spot, and will be again soon. The trip south to Tunisia is very short; I don't see a couple of days of sailing as being an issue at all. If you know you want to spend the winter in, say, Italy, then apply for a long-stay visa.

Giving up on this amazing place because of fear of bureaucracy would be a tragic mistake. There are ways to do this. True that the old freedom of movement for US passports is declining, but no reason to pick up the marbles and go home...

Greg
__________________
CarinaPDX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2012, 21:10   #114
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 650
Re: 8 Years in the Med ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
I have read several blogs by US sailors that spent a couple of years in the Med but have not yet heard a solid answer for how to do it easily, safely and legally.
As Greg correctly points out just above, there are plenty of places to go in the med without visiting north Africa (which I would not do in the current political climate, although I did a few years ago). I'll add Monaco to Greg's list. They will stamp your passport if you ask (I have a Monaco stamp in one of mine, but it is undated, so you'd want to have a receipt for something to evidence when you were there).

If you plan to spend so much time in the Schengen Area as to worry about it, then I suggest you simply get a residence permit from a Schengen Area country. For citizens of the countries we've been discussing, such as Canada, USA, OZ, NZ, etc., it is easy to get a one-year residence permit. Those automatically include the right to be in each Schengen Area country for three months out of six.

If the objective is to cruise the med, it's just not an issue at all. If you want to take up long-term residence as a live-aboard in the med, then just get a residence permit.
__________________
mcarling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2012, 21:15   #115
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,379
Post Re: 8 Years in the Med ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarinaPDX View Post
Judy and skipmac- please don't get upset about this. If you want to toe the line with the law you still have great (legal) options. If you leave Turkey in the spring, spend the summer in Croatia, then head for Gibraltar by September 1, you can have an amazing summer and still be in Schengen less than 90 days. Croatia and Turkey are by far the best places to sail in the Med and both are non-Schengen. (Although Croatia will enter the EU next summer, it will not be implementing Schengen until 2015 as currently planned.) For a multi-year trip it is easy enough to winter outside Schengen, by going back to Turkey or visiting Israel (very interesting), Cyprus (a popular British hangout), Ceuta, or Gibraltar. In the past Tunisia has been a popular spot, and will be again soon. The trip south to Tunisia is very short; I don't see a couple of days of sailing as being an issue at all. If you know you want to spend the winter in, say, Italy, then apply for a long-stay visa.

Giving up on this amazing place because of fear of bureaucracy would be a tragic mistake. There are ways to do this. True that the old freedom of movement for US passports is declining, but no reason to pick up the marbles and go home...

Greg
Oh I haven't thrown in the towel yet. Just finding the whole process quite annoying. From what I can gather, you can probably go there and spend months and no one will notice or care as long as you don't make a nuisance of yourself. But I don't like playing that way. I would prefer following the rules and not worry about running into some official having a bad day that decides to enforce the rules on me.

Still researching all the options and there I do see some ways around the 90 day limit but they seem to involve a lot of hassle and paper work.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2012, 21:34   #116
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 650
Re: 8 Years in the Med ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by svBeBe View Post
Once we leave Turkey, that 90-day clock will be ticking until we reach Gibraltor.
Not if you want to stop in any of Albania, Croatia, Cyprus, Israel, Monaco, or Montenegro. You also have the option of visiting the Schengen Area for one day about three months before your first port of call in the Schengen Area after departing Turkey. Then you will have three months of unlimited time within the Schengen Area up to the six month anniversary of that first entry, at which time you should be outside the Schengen Area (get entry and exit stamps bounding that six month anniversary from any of the countries I listed above or fly to Britain or Ireland for a brief visit). Then you'll immediately have a second six month period in which you can spend three months in the Schengen Area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
From what I can gather, you can probably go there and spend months and no one will notice or care as long as you don't make a nuisance of yourself.
Correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
But I don't like playing that way. I would prefer following the rules and not worry about running into some official having a bad day that decides to enforce the rules on me.
Fair enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Still researching all the options and there I do see some ways around the 90 day limit but they seem to involve a lot of hassle and paper work.
How long do you actually plan to be in the Med?
__________________
mcarling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2012, 21:58   #117
Registered User
 
CarinaPDX's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Boat: 31' Cape George Cutter
Posts: 1,674
Re: 8 Years in the Med ??

I would say SOME hassle and paperwork. It is nothing like the situation in virtually every latin-american country I have visited. The biggest problem is usually getting over the fear of the bogeyman that tends to enlarge the more it is discussed.

Greg
__________________
CarinaPDX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2012, 22:52   #118
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,379
Re: 8 Years in the Med ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
How long do you actually plan to be in the Med?
Well not just the Med but including Ireland, UK, Scandinavia, EU Med, other Med (mainly Israel) I could easily spend 2-3 years just hitting the high points.

To stay legal I can see a lot of timing and moving in and out of Schengen countries to keep strictly legal.

I have been looking into long stay visas in a couple of countries but from what I've learned so far that does involve a bit of paperwork and hassle and have not heard from anyone that has actually done it so not sure if these are obtainable by normal people or only the rich and famous. I'm pretty sure George Clooney doesn't have any trouble getting a long stay visa to hang out at his house in Italy but I'm no George Clooney. Of course I'm better looking than he is, just don't have his money and fame.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2012, 00:55   #119
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 650
Re: 8 Years in the Med ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Well not just the Med but including Ireland, UK, Scandinavia, EU Med, other Med (mainly Israel) I could easily spend 2-3 years just hitting the high points.

To stay legal I can see a lot of timing and moving in and out of Schengen countries to keep strictly legal.
If I were in your boat, I would skip the residence permit (one or two year visa depending on the country) and consider the moving around to be part of the adventure. If you want to spend a lot of time in an Israeli marina, I would recommend either Tel Aviv or Ashkelon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
I have been looking into long stay visas in a couple of countries but from what I've learned so far that does involve a bit of paperwork and hassle and have not heard from anyone that has actually done it so not sure if these are obtainable by normal people or only the rich and famous.
I've organized Schengen Area residence permits for Russian and Belarusian bow babes. One of them is now in her sixth year and would qualify for permanent residence if she could pass a language exam. It was not a huge hassle nor terribly expensive. I guess you probably have a passport which is looked upon by EU countries more favorably than a Russian passport.
__________________
mcarling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2012, 01:45   #120
Registered User
 
CarinaPDX's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Boat: 31' Cape George Cutter
Posts: 1,674
Re: 8 Years in the Med ??

The marina in Herzliya, Israel is nice as well.
__________________

__________________
CarinaPDX is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cruising, retirement

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OpenCPN Beta Version 3.1.814 Released bdbcat OpenCPN 185 14-09-2012 08:43
OpenGL for OpenCPN bdbcat OpenCPN 72 15-11-2011 01:17



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:16.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.