lithium battery source/price thread

[Topspin]

Hmmm,

have a look at: https://www.ev-power.eu/Winston-12V-sets/?cur=1


Example: 400 AH Pack with BMS: 2118€


Regards,



-Richard

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by guyrj33

A 170AH battery that doesn't come close to supplying enough current to start an engine, that doesn't sound right.

Amp hours (Ah) are a measure of power delivered over time. That battery can supply 170 amps for 1 hour at 12.8V. You seem to be thinking about amps (as opposed to amp hours) which is an instantaneous amount of power. A 700 CCA battery can deliver 700 amps for a very short period of time to start an engine, nothing in reasonable size could deliver that for an hour to make it a 700Ah battery.
I would humbly suggest that batteries and electricity can be very dangerous things. If one is unclear on the difference between amp hours and amps, it points to dozens or hundreds of other important concepts in the field that one may not only not understand but not even know that they don't know exist, any of which can lead to catastrophic consequences for them, their family and guests, and those who put themselves at risk to rescue them. Sorry to be so blunt, but to an electrical engineer that statement is akin to me showing up for your brain surgery and asking the nurse to "hand me the knife"!

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

Amp hours (Ah) are a measure of power delivered over time. That battery can supply 170 amps for 1 hour at 12.8V. You seem to be thinking about amps (as opposed to amp hours) which is an instantaneous amount of power. A 700 CCA battery can deliver 700 amps for a very short period of time to start an engine, nothing in reasonable size could deliver that for an hour to make it a 700Ah battery.
I would humbly suggest that batteries and electricity can be very dangerous things. If one is unclear on the difference between amp hours and amps, it points to dozens or hundreds of other important concepts in the field that one may not only not understand but not even know that they don't know exist, any of which can lead to catastrophic consequences for them, their family and guests, and those who put themselves at risk to rescue them. Sorry to be so blunt, but to an electrical engineer that statement is akin to me showing up for your brain surgery and asking the nurse to "hand me the knife"!

Actually, you're wrong in your assumption. As has already been explained, the BMS limits the available current in the subject battery to 50A. THIS is what makes it not suitable for starting regardless of it's a/h rating. The cells in the battery could possibly very well supply 500Amps or more, but the BMS is limited to supplying 50Amps continuous (and maybe 100A maximum in short duty cycles). This is quite common with cheap LFP batteries because they have been designed for low current applications like street lighting.


And it's not only engine starting that needs to be considered, but also winch operations. Draw too much out of a flimsy BMS and it will disconnect the batteries. For this reason, the maximum continuous current delivery of an LFP battery is a critical parameter for battery selection.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

Amp hours (Ah) are a measure of power delivered over time. That battery can supply 170 amps for 1 hour at 12.8V

He was correctly referring to this
> 100 amp max discharge current

not Ah capacity

[john61ct]

This thread's already all over the place.

OP you are located where?

[Topspin]

The ideal usage for LiFePO4 is as a house battery because of the high number of recharge cycles (long lifetime), the potential of deep cycling down to around 20% of capacity, high load currents (quick load) and it being almost service free and a pretty safe technology.

There is in my opinion no need to replace high load batteries as starter batteries or windlass/thruster batteries with LiFePO4.



-Richard

[KTP]

Well for us we are using the bank for propulsion, so we do need the higher current capability, although it isn't *that* high. At 48V we could draw up to about 200 amps if we were to go wide open throttle. With a 300AH 48V bank that is only asking for ~70 amps from each battery.

The Trojan Trillium goes a lot higher than that and it is LFP. Why can't you change the CAN ID of the battery...that doesn't even make sense it is so engineering stupid.

[CapnBazza]

Originally Posted by KTP

I would like to collect information about the current offerings in drop-in lithium batteries into one giant thread so we can examine and compare the various features and prices.

At a minimum, manufacturer, battery part number, capacity, and price. Additional information such as warranty, IP rating, safety features would be nice.

Feel free to add to this thread any information you have about a particular battery but please try to stay on topic and not devolve into how monohull are better than multihull or which anchor is best.

I will start by stating what little I know so far about one I was/am interested in, the Trojan Trillium line, which seems to be a rebranded K2 extreme angler series (but perhaps with a Trojan requested selection of capacities and features).

1) Trojan Trillium TR12.8-92 92AH, 1180WH $920ea $0.78 WH
Features: IP67 enclosure, charge/discharge/temp/short circuit protections, canbus communications, 250A continuous discharge current, *possible 4/8 year warranty, unconfirmed

Supposedly in stock at https://www.thesolarbiz.com/batteries.html?type=416

https://itechworld.com.au/collection...ithium-battery

Looking to buy a couple of these to add to the LiFePO4 I already have.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by CapnBazza

https://itechworld.com.au/collection...ithium-battery

Looking to buy a couple of these to add to the LiFePO4 I already have.

Wow... is that in AUD? 120AH at 12v for $850 AUD is just $586 USD.

Matt

[CapnBazza]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

Wow... is that in AUD? 120AH at 12v for $850 AUD is just $586 USD.

Matt

Yes, AUD, not the cheapest around but probably quite good.

[CapnBazza]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

Wow... is that in AUD? 120AH at 12v for $850 AUD is just $586 USD.

Matt

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F264350057415

Check this one.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by CapnBazza

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F264350057415

Check this one.

I can't believe how much lower the price is in Australia vs the US for these drop in packs. I wonder what contributes to that?

Matt

[CapnBazza]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

I can't believe how much lower the price is in Australia vs the US for these drop in packs. I wonder what contributes to that?

Matt

We don’t have a trade war with China.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by john61ct

He was correctly referring to this
> 100 amp max discharge current

not Ah capacity

Sorry, silly me I thought when he said 170 he was referring to the 170 aH capacity not the 100 amp discharge capacity....given that's a completely different number and all.

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by CapnBazza

https://itechworld.com.au/collection...ithium-battery

Looking to buy a couple of these to add to the LiFePO4 I already have.

Before you settle on this, check out the "allspark" units supplied from WA. 175a continuous output bms and (I think) 4 year warranty for not a great deal more.